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jennywales

I visited Richard Lee today.

From what he told me, it is clear that assuming that an all-in price really means all-in is unrealistic. He, the same as other trainers, considers the all-in price to cover costs over which he has control (training fee, travel, lad's expenses, farrier, gallop fees if applicable - not in his case as he has his own). Other costs (entries, jockey fees, vet fees other than routine vaccinations and worming, registration of syndicate name, horse and colours, buying colours, insurance) are additional to his all-in costs (I suspect this is why he did not respond in detail to my fax!)

He is located some 10 miles outside Ludlow/Leominster. Ludlow has good rail links. He is close to the Midlands, and further north than most big trainers. His nearest courses are Ludlow, Hereford, Chepstow, Stratford, Cheltenham, Bangor, Worcester, Wolverhampton (he doesn't have many runners on the flat/a/w, though he is sending one to Kempton at the weekend), Warwick and Uttoxeter.

He has 26 horses in training at the moment, which is a small yard. The yard is very friendly (I was greeted by a succession of girl grooms, the head lass, his daughter and his wife before he himself arrived). The facilities are good if not posh (he has a horse walker and his own gallops) and the horses I saw in the yard were all very well mannered - apart from one who bites! Interestingly, none of the stables had anti-weaving bars or any other indications of stable vices (which arise from a mixture of reasons, but can be caused through boredom). They had different bedding (straw in some cases, shredded paper in others, where dust might cause breathing problems). All the horses had eaten up their midday feeds and looked in very good health. He feeds hay on the ground, not in a hay net or manger, which is good "natural" practice. They also "handled" well, which argues that his training regime is sensitive and tailored to the individual. All horses (unless injured) are turned out for at least two hours every day. No money is being spent on frills and furbelows (arches and clocktowers, hanging baskets and so on).

He has one other syndicate, numbering 20 members. As with most trainers, he deals with one syndicate member on day to day matters, including entries. He tries to give reasonable notice of the syndicate horse running (subject of course to last minute problems/changes in going). The syndicate manager informs all members in advance when their horse is due to run. He lays on one syndicate yard visit (all members) every year, but members can also visit in smaller groups given advance notice. (I phoned him on Tuesday and he happily agreed to my visiting on Thursday). They also hold their AGM at the races when their horse is running, and Richard usually arranges a box for them (a people box, not a stable or horsebox!)

He had a number of useful observations on syndicate management. He said that obviously, if he thought the horse had a good chance in a race, he would let the members know, but his stable is not a gambling one and if members choose to punt on their horse that is their business, not his!

The existing syndicate had done very well last year, and had about £20,000 in prize money, which the manager (like me, doing it for nothing!) had distributed as dividend. He thought this was a bad idea. In his view, the money should have gone back into the account for future use and/or contingencies. He gave as an example a syndicate horse who was promising, but was unfortunately killed in a fall at Southwell. I also think he was testing me about how I/we would react to such a happening. I said that we understood the risks, and were willing to cope, but that our preliminary view was that all prizes, if any, should go back into the pot.

We discussed welfare and what happens if the horse is unable to continue to race through injury or illness. I said that we had considered this, and would be prepared to provide the horse with re-homing or retirement if necessary. He was surprised, as apparently many syndicates do not think of this aspect, but also impressed!

On purchase, he thought that £10,000 would buy us something reasonable (certainly by no means top class). He agreed that buying out of a Flat yard to go jumping was a good idea. However, he had strong views about which yards he would be prepared to buy out of - some were no-nos because the trainers "emptied" the horses (ie used them too hard) before sending them to the sales, and they were then ruined for further development. He did say he would always be prepared to buy out of Sir Michael Stoute's yard (interesting observation in itself!) He would be prepared to buy for us, either at the sales or privately.

I have not made any commitments, and I hope to visit Charlie Egerton's yard later on in September. But my overall impression is that
Richard does well from a small yard, his management is good, he is honest and open and the yard is accessible. We could do a lot worse!

Now, the crunch! £10,000 (£250 x 40 shares) is enough to buy something reasonable. HOWEVER, his estimate of annual running costs is very close to Kim Bailey's (£20,000 pa which means, with 40 shares, a monthly payment of £45 per share (£90 for 2 shares and so on). There will be one off registration costs, which could be handled in the first year, but to have even a small "cushion", £45 per month for 40 shares is the minimum. If 20 members with 1 share each, then £90 per month per share.

This is £10 more than originally estimated for 40 shares (£35). As Richard rightly pointed out, how much money do people spend on their hobbies in a month? And ( as a personal aside and not to be answered in public!) it occurred to me to ask how much every month do you individually spend on gambling? Wouldn't you rather own your own horse, and go racing to see it run, and perhaps be able to buy another in a few years time, than fritter the cash on losing (or even winning) bets??? Go to the racecourse, not the betting shop!!!

Lastly, (and I promise it is lastly), Richard made a good point. There is no reason for me to carry on with this scheme unless and until enough shareholders are willing to "buy" shares and, more importantly, to PUT THEIR CASH DOWN. I have already said that I would only be prepared to continue to manage the syndicate (I hope with help) if members were willing to establish a direct debit for the payments (both capital and running costs). This is to protect me from being left holding a baby racehorse, and also to protect you, because the account will be with Weatherbys, but you have to trust me to manage your money and not run off to South America with it!! (which is where a properly drafted co-ownership agreement comes in).

It would obviously be most unfair for me to ask you to stump up cash "sight unseen", but we have two possible meeting dates - 9 September York and 30 September Fontwell. Also possibly 11-12 November Cheltenham. Because of the money question, apart from anything else, it is vital that you have confidence in me as the manager. So come along, meet me, and decide whether you are willing to trust your hard-earned to an account managed by me!!

If enough of you are, it's a runner. If not, never mind! I have learned a lot about the economics of racing, and I hope you have too!

PS Richard offered me a quarter-share in a nice grey - might just take that up......
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UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!

costa fox · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:

Hi Jenny

Thanks for that most interesting and informative write up - it must have been a great experience visiting a racing yard.

As previously mentioned to you, I will not be able to make either of the meetings as my leave is all spoken for until December.
However on the figures quoted I would be happy to go ahead with 1 share.

Thanks once again for the hard work you have put into this project - it is appreciated
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Keep your words soft and sweet - you may have to eat them one day

golfswing · Group Performer Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 2679

Hi Jen..
Just to echo Costa's post...

Thanks for such a comprehensive and interesting write up ... I didn't realise until yesterday that you were going to Richard Lee's yard,, I would have been happy to meet you as it is only about 45 mins from here .... (that will teach me to read all the posts)

Mind you I don't know anything about the upkeep/purchase of horses so I wouldn't have been any use to you ....

Lets just hope that we can get the 40 bids required to make it a goer...
once again many thanks

Ray
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A tips only a good one if its a winning one

jennywales · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:56 am Post subject:

Costa, thanks for that! Obviously you will only be asked to send your cash to a properly set up and managed account, with the books open to anyone at any time.

Understand about being unable to make a meeting at the moment. If you're happy about what I am doing, then maybe others will be too!
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UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!

Chewster · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Jenny,

Excellent write up and again thanks ever so much for all of the effort that you're putting into this.

From what you've mentioned Richards yard sounds very well run and it's possibly an advantage that it's quite a small yard (more personal treatment etc, horses get treated on an individual basis)

I did mention before that I'm slightly concerned about costs, purely because the boyfriend is thinking about changing jobs and it would put us in an unsettled position for a while. Obviously I wouldn't want to say yes and then have to pull out early on so until I'm sure what's happening I'm very interested.

And if there is going to be a meeting at Cheltenham in November I'm still free to attend that.

Thanks again Jenny.

kickingkyle · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject:

Sounds so intresting and would love to be a part but things are tight at the min. New job, working your wks in hand etc, bloody speeding ticket!!! and knowing what i will come out with after tax, rent etc.
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Wolves winner 20.1.08

westmeadhawk · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject:

Jenny, fantastic input - I hope you enjoyed the visit to Richard Lee's. Any yard that feeds hay from the ground is fine by me!!!! I must confess I have no idea about his stable though and any horses in it - would we have heard of any (not that it matters particularly)? If this goes ahead I would want to be involved on a one share basis. Agree totally about any unlikely dividend being put aside for a rainy day. I hope this comes off and I will see you on the 30th

jennywales · Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:07 am Post subject:

Potts of Magic? Iffy (running this weekend at Stratford)? Southerndown?

Look him up in the RP or Sporting Life trainer databases.

He doesn't have "big name" horses, and unless you are a habitue of the smaller, more western, courses, you probably wouldn't have come across him. He isn't high profile, but I am really in favour of small yards for the type of syndicate we are thinking of - more personal attention for people and horses.

Glad to know you're in if and when - see you at Fontwell!
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UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!

golfswing · Group Performer Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 2679

Chocky Thornton rides a lot of his horses.
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A tips only a good one if its a winning one

nick1176wba · Handicapper Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 160

Hi Jenny
Am still very much interested but as i put in previous posts at the moment me attending any kinda meeting/race meeting are very much a non starter, Literally working all hours. However willing to sign a D/D mandate if and when every thing is ready to go

jennywales · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

rapidlateheadway · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject:

Like Nick Jenny I`m up to the paps. Very busy time of year and trying to finish off the outdoor bowling season. I have been following the posts and am still interested. Sorry wont make York or Fontwell, But have just booked a three day Henessey weekend with Toastie and a big mate. Will be staying in Basingstoke and will be a Newbury when the gates open each day. Dont know if this is of interest for a meeting place or no. We`ll find out nearer the time I guess. We will also know how the first two meetings have gone.

Well done on the work you have done so far. :gg:

Rapid