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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: Yawn . . .
Is it just me or is this forum increasingly dumbed down these days?
Every thread on Off Topic is about stupid stuff like least favoruite whatever, songs with the word 'the' in it etc. Every time there is a thread about something mildly interesting it dies a death almost instantly with very few people seemingly interested. And even if an interesting debate does start a certain mod soon comes in and threatens to lock it
Even the horse racing forum is boring as hell these days too - never any proper discussion any more.
I've felt like this forum has been dying for a few months now. Agree? Disagree?
It would seem that we need a “Serious Subjects Only” thread, and anyone abusing the subjects raised, with trivia and frivolity is given a week ban from the forum. We have an Off Topic section for trivia and fun and whatever turns you on type subjects, it is popular, but it is what it says on the tin. Horse racing and football are threads that I don’t frequent too much because I have little interest in the serious side of those subjects and cannot contribute informed information, so I therefore mark those forums as read along with other sections that I cannot enhance. Basically, cherry pick your subjects and the “dumbing” down of the forum will never give you concern. Sorry Owl, but those are just opinions, which is what the forum is all about. _________________ WE ARE NOT STRANGERS, JUST FRIENDS WHO HAVE NEVER MET.
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
Owl of Minerva wrote:
Is it just me or is this forum increasingly dumbed down these days?
Every thread on Off Topic is about stupid stuff like least favoruite whatever, songs with the word 'the' in it etc. Every time there is a thread about something mildly interesting it dies a death almost instantly with very few people seemingly interested. And even if an interesting debate does start a certain mod soon comes in and threatens to lock it
Even the horse racing forum is boring as hell these days too - never any proper discussion any more.
I've felt like this forum has been dying for a few months now. Agree? Disagree?
The problem with off topic is it does exactly what it says on the tin. It is impossible for us to stop the nonsense threads, without being accussed of being the thought police. Frankly I only read a lot of the dross on off topic as I have to moderate it.
As for the forum dying, it always gets like this at this time of year. More people are on holiday or out enjoying the sunshine. The soccer Forum is stuck between two seasons. Racing midweek is at a lull until the next major meeting.
Maybe the answer is for you to post more Owl _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
Owl of Minerva wrote:
And even if an interesting debate does start a certain mod soon comes in and threatens to lock it
Owl
Owl, this is not only uncalled for, but bullshit. The thread you are refering to started to get heated, with a mention of someones wife. Mods and Admin have always, and will continue, to try and keep posts and threads within the guidelines. If this doesnt happen, we will then delete either the thread or the whole topic.
I can assure you onoe of us decide what to do with a thread without discussing it first, so the accusation about a certain mod is nothing more than stiring the pot, in my opinion. Something that is also against the guidelines. Try using the BBC Forum of Betfair, neither are operated better than this in, again in my opinion. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
Yes, and I notice David-UK also remarked about the dull as ditchwater daily racing thread - it's only dull as ditchwater (or dishwater for that matter!) if people (David included) don't post on it with interesting/controversial insights (within the guidelines, of course).
If the forum is dull, that's what the members make it......I also agree with Alan that it's a time of year when people will anyway be around less, the quality of midweek Flat racing isn't great, and I also suspect that a majority (maybe not a huge one, but certainly a majority) of posters with views and opinions are more likely to be NH people rather than Flat people - and making an interesting thread out of a mid-week fixture at Worcester in June is going to tax anyones' brains!
As for Off Topic, it is what it says it is - Off Topic and about everything else (I confess that when we had a controversial few episodes a while ago I was all for abolishing it as too likely to stir up trouble.....and now people are complaining about boring threads!)
Basically, within reasonable limits this forum is what the members make it. If you think it's dull the remedy is in your own hands, if you can find it. Or maybe we just have to accept that at certain times of the year things go quiet.
I thought the Royal Ascot sub-forum very interesting and succesful, and although not a real Flat fan read it keenly.
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
alansouthcoast wrote:
Owl of Minerva wrote:
And even if an interesting debate does start a certain mod soon comes in and threatens to lock it
Owl
Owl, this is not only uncalled for, but bullshit. The thread you are refering to started to get heated, with a mention of someones wife. Mods and Admin have always, and will continue, to try and keep posts and threads within the guidelines. If this doesnt happen, we will then delete either the thread or the whole topic.
if this refers to is the stock market thread, it is completely laughable.
i know about the markets. i will never know everything. never. but i do know a vast amount more than most people do about how the markets work, and the products that are traded on them. so when people who patantly have no idea about the markets, or me, or anything surrounding the discussion, come onto the thread and slag me off personally, call me arrogant and virtually blame me for causing the credit crunch, you might expect that i would lose my temper. i didn't. i used a very simple, non-offensive analogy to show how ignorant it is to generalise.
i would have thought you would want people who do know what they are talking about contributing to the relevant threads rather than taking one sentece out of many contributions, placing it out of context and blaming it for a thread nearly being locked.
the problem with this forum is the overall low standard of debate. no individual can change this. lochsong's comments on that thread were just ridiculous beyond belief, and yet you single out something i said?! why don't we leave him to do the market commentary alongside the name a song blah blah blah threads and see how it goes!
i love reading posts from tags, mach, owl, LUFC and many others all over the forum, but more and more you have to delve through complete dross to get to them. that is what is kiling the forum.
AJ you miss the point entirely. The reason locking the thread was mentioned, was due to dragging someones family into it, thats an inescapable fact. I have been doing this admin job for almost three years, so please accept that we see a pattern of how these threads go downhill and try to avoid that. That is all we were doing and we will continue to operate in the same manner.
We often get made out to be some sort of draconian outfit, let me point out a few facts.
NO one gets a PM about a post that we, collectively, dont feel is deserved.
Several users have been on a final warning, yet we often just send a gentle reminder of that fact when the discussion gets heated. If we were really that bad we could just ban them.
A few users have been banned before, but are posting under other names. Again we could ban them but have given them the benefit of the doubt, so they are still here posting and doing okay.
As for a low standard of debate, who has said we have a standard ? Some people just want to get on here and relax without highbrow debates, others, such as myself will be happy to debate about most topics. If you see a subject you dont like just skip over it.
What gets me is the unjust criticism of someone who has devoted a lot of free time to making this forum what it is. The main aim of all the mods and admin is to stop this place from being like the old BBC forum was.
The only other option is for us to let anything go, and then start banning people when things get out of hand. I am sure none of us, you included, wish for us to take that route.
Edited for typing errors. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
alansouthcoast wrote:
Owl of Minerva wrote:
And even if an interesting debate does start a certain mod soon comes in and threatens to lock it
Owl
Owl, this is not only uncalled for, but bullshit. The thread you are refering to started to get heated, with a mention of someones wife. Mods and Admin have always, and will continue, to try and keep posts and threads within the guidelines. If this doesnt happen, we will then delete either the thread or the whole topic.
I can assure you onoe of us decide what to do with a thread without discussing it first, so the accusation about a certain mod is nothing more than stiring the pot, in my opinion. Something that is also against the guidelines. Try using the BBC Forum of Betfair, neither are operated better than this in, again in my opinion.
I wasn't referring to a particular thread - and even after what you have just said I'm not entirely sure what thread you are referring to.
The mods generally speaking do a great job but one of them is clearly a problem as they are clearly only interested in contributiing to the 'dumb' threads and whenever a more serious thread gets a bit heated (as they inevitably will from time to time - being serious subjects) they jump in at the first opportunity threatening to lock it, thus sucking all the life out of the debate and basically ending the thread.
It's the pre-emptive warnings that get posted directly onto threads that are the problem - it should be done by PM as doing it on the thread ruins the debate. Mods need to be able to accept feedback and not simply say 'Go and use the BBC/Betfair forum if you don't like it' every time someone is critical. Just because the modding and this forum generally are better than others it doesn't mean it can't be improved.
Maybe this forum has just changed in terms of the personnel it now attracts and the resulting quality of posting. A lot of the more interesting/intelligent posters have gone in the past few months and we are left with a lot more posters who are seemingly only really interested in talking about crap TV and talking about song/film titles with certain words in. I hear what you say about the time of year but I think there's more to it than that - the forum has fundamentally changed (for the worse unfortuantely) imo
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
Owl of Minerva wrote:
The mods generally speaking do a great job but one of them is clearly a problem as they are clearly only interested in contributiing to the 'dumb' threads and whenever a more serious thread gets a bit heated (as they inevitably will from time to time - being serious subjects) they jump in at the first opportunity threatening to lock it, thus sucking all the life out of the debate and basically ending the thread.
It's the pre-emptive warnings that get posted directly onto threads that are the problem - it should be done by PM as doing it on the thread ruins the debate. Mods need to be able to accept feedback and not simply say 'Go and use the BBC/Betfair forum if you don't like it' every time someone is critical. Just because the modding and this forum generally are better than others it doesn't mean it can't be improved.
Owl, you miss the point completely. We, as mods and admin, can choose to post on any topic we wish, dumb or not. When it comes to moderating, we all follow the guidelines at the top of the page. Not only that but we also ask for second opinions on the moderator forum. I dont see how you make it one mod is a problem, unless you have a personal issue with them. Anyone who used to be a mod can clarify that we hardly ever take any action without a second opinion. The only time we do this is when the post is blatant and no one else is online to ask.
As for not accepting criticism, well this threads still going isnt it ? We have never deleted a thread on feedback that has been critical of us, not once. If you know of an occassion when we have, please let me know.
As for you own circumstances on here, and the issue of PM`s ect, do you not think we are more than fair ? Do you not recall all the Pms with a friendly, tone it down a bit please, written in them ? We could just have said okay enough is enough, we have never done that, and always tried to see both dies in an argument. Frankly your stance perplexes me, as I feel we bend over backwards not to end up banning people.
Edited to fix quotes. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
Owl I havent twisted anything. You have said that one mod pre empts trouble with a warning to lock the thread. I have said that isnt the case, all decisions to lock thread or send PMs ect ect are taken collectively. Singling out just one of us is wide of the mark. If there is any blame to be had, then we all share it.
The above said, it still doesnt alter the fact that we only take action if and when we feel the guidelines are broken. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Yawn . . .
alansouthcoast wrote:
Owl, you miss the point completely. We, as mods and admin, can choose to post on any topic we wish, dumb or not. I never said you couldn't When it comes to moderating, we all follow the guidelines at the top of the page. Not only that but we also ask for second opinions on the moderator forum. I dont see how you make it one mod is a problem, unless you have a personal issue with them. No personal issue, just think the mod in question is over zealous and likes to stick their nose in at the earliest opportunity Anyone who used to be a mod can clarify that we hardly ever take any action without a second opinion. The only time we do this is when the post is blatant and no one else is online to ask.
As for not accepting criticism, well this threads still going isnt it ? Yes it is We have never deleted a thread on feedback that has been critical of us, not once. No you haven't If you know of an occassion when we have, please let me know. I don't know of one. When did I say you had? But just because you let threads stay it doesn't mean you are taking on board the feedback
As for you own circumstances on here, and the issue of PM`s ect, do you not think we are more than fair ? Do you not recall all the Pms with a friendly, tone it down a bit please, written in them ? Yes they are. Why did I say otherwise? I said more PMs are needed, not less We could just have said okay enough is enough, we have never done that, and always tried to see both dies in an argument. Frankly your stance perplexes me, as I feel we bend over backwards not to end up banning people. When did banning people come into this?
You posted that the mod concerned only seems interestind in posting on dumb thread. What has that got to do with how the board is moderated ?
You dont think we are taking criticism on board. I wish i could show you the number of discussions we have had on how we do/should operate. Sadly much of out input in this matter is hardly noticed, as its on our own forum
Your point about the PMs overlooks that we send pms and dont just ban people. We threaten to lock threads as often it would mean sending half a dozen pm`s.
You asked when bannings came into this. That is the whole point of us taking pre emptive action. So we dont have to ban anyone.
Finally, thanks for keeping this cordial. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
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