alansouthcoast
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Betfred, Mikey Mouse and the ten second watch !I was standing in my local Betfreds today, when one of the regulars started screaming for joy. I looked across and he said, "Bloody hell Alan look at the prices" There wasnt any races that had just finished, and i twigged he meant the Mikey Mouse nonsense. He had backed the first three home in 20p combination forecasts and tricasts. I forget how much exactly, but for a £2.40 total outlay, he had around £350 to come back.
Just then i noticed one of the managers had gone pale. My mate said "Whats up" and the guy said his computer was showing the slip as Ten seconds late. AS with any virual payouts above a certain size, managers have to rign head office. The manager explained it was a regular punter, who was a few seconds late due to a queue. Betfreds local head office said, and i quote "Punters should know they must get a bet on before a race starts, and with virtual racing we dont even allow a one second delay "
Our next move was to go and ring customer services, who didnt want to know. I cant blame the staff, as they spoke up for the guy on the phone. I can blame Betfred, as this wasnt a con of any kind, just a few seconds between the bet being passed across the counter and going through the till. Fred, if you are watching, "Shame on you " I cant tell you what i really think, as we have a good word censor. MY guess is your company havent ever called anyone back to say the slip was late, if the bet lost..
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YAIYAM
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The only way to really deal with anything like this is for him to vote with his feet and not go back there again, if he does more fool him
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jennywales
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Only one answer - don't use Betfred and tell everyone else not to use them, too. There is one in my village (all right "The Only Bookie in the Village" - I know we're in Wales!) I go in about once a year. Now I won't go in ever again.
Disregarding what I think about people betting on virtual racing, that is appalling and unfair. In fact, it reminds me of the jobsworth ref in the Taekwondo today who didn't give the Cuban fighter a couple more seconds to get up. No excuse for the fighter kicking him, but still.....
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alansouthcoast
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Even the shop managers were furious, they even said the guy could quote them in any correspondence.
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Owl of Minerva
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They must be a lot stricter with virtual racing because I recall being in a Betfred shop a few years back and having a big bet for me at the time (£20e/w @ 12/1 I think it was) on Carte Diamond to win the November handicap and I must have put it on at least 10-15 secs after the start and remember being so happy that they had been stupid enough to accept the bet! Paid me out no questions asked
I always thought that if you got the bet on then that was it and they had to pay but obviously not
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alansouthcoast
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There is no law that forces any bookmaker to pay out on a bet. Barry Dennis was one of several caught out by a coup at Sittingborne dogs last month, and he with held payment. Im not sure if thats been resolved or not.
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BRETT
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unbelievable what bookies do nowadays to withhold payment.you should scoop up all the discarded betting slips (obviously losers)and see what ones were placed after the official off time.any ones over that time should be taken to the desk and a refund given.if its good enough for them its good enough for us.
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Dan-o
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Has a similiar incident in Ladbrokes, My friend was betting on the virtual football we was having a good day, anyway he had £20 at 9/1 on 2-1 to the away team...Came in and they said your bet was 10 seconds late....Couldn't believe it.
I wonder if the bet lost would they say 'excuse me sir, your bet was late so come have your money back' would they ****!!!
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SkankyMinga
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Thats disgusting.
If the bookies are worried that there could be some underhand activity with the virtual racing then they shouldn't run it.
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lenahan
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Surely the computers in the betting shops shoudl refuse to take the bets if they are not placed in time? The regulators should get onto this. It must surely break some sort of rule?
I mean either the bet is valid or it is not ? If its taken then pay out or otherwise dont take the bet if its late ?
Is it that difficult? And like i said surely there must be some sort of rule they are falling foul off ?
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theGoingStick
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| lenahan wrote: | Surely the computers in the betting shops shoudl refuse to take the bets if they are not placed in time? The regulators should get onto this. It must surely break some sort of rule?
I mean either the bet is valid or it is not ? If its taken then pay out or otherwise dont take the bet if its late ?
Is it that difficult? And like i said surely there must be some sort of rule they are falling foul off ? |
When the bet is hand written it is just scanned into the system and time stamped, it's upto the cashier to check the slip before doing this. It isn't enetered onto the system at that exact moment and therefore can't be checked by the computer.
It is the cashiers fault for taking the bet after the race (or event) has begun. You see it happen every day.
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alansouthcoast
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TGS, thats true, but on a busy Saturday, with lots of bets and meetings taking place, one can hardly blame the cashiers. Firstly, there are normally way to few working. The large W Hills shop in towns high street had just one person working, both Friday and Saturday, despite the number of meetings and races taking please. Saturday morning the manager got a phone call from security saying his tell was £20 adrift, thats despite running the shop for 12 hours on his own. His reply to them was " I dont give a toss " and i cant say i blame him.
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Owl of Minerva
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Mind you, one could argue that this situation kind of serves the guy right for being stupid enough to bet on the cartoon racing 
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jayfle
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| Owl of Minerva wrote: | | Mind you, one could argue that this situation kind of serves the guy right for being stupid enough to bet on the cartoon racing |
Yerr i agree but maybe with slightly less money involved.
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alansouthcoast
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| Owl of Minerva wrote: | | Mind you, one could argue that this situation kind of serves the guy right for being stupid enough to bet on the cartoon racing |
Not really, a bets a bet, they should honour it or have a fool prof system in place. Technically they can do the same to any bet, virtual or otherwise.
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lenahan
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| theGoingStick wrote: | | lenahan wrote: | Surely the computers in the betting shops shoudl refuse to take the bets if they are not placed in time? The regulators should get onto this. It must surely break some sort of rule?
I mean either the bet is valid or it is not ? If its taken then pay out or otherwise dont take the bet if its late ?
Is it that difficult? And like i said surely there must be some sort of rule they are falling foul off ? |
When the bet is hand written it is just scanned into the system and time stamped, it's upto the cashier to check the slip before doing this. It isn't enetered onto the system at that exact moment and therefore can't be checked by the computer.
It is the cashiers fault for taking the bet after the race (or event) has begun. You see it happen every day. |
Yes tis true. And ultimetly we all know what bookies are like and its never a good idea to leave it right till the last minute as a punter to get your bets on.
But surely it can be slightly different with the virtual racing? I mean i doubt they ever go off late etc ? It will be hard wired into the system that they go off at a set time etc ? The cashier and system should know fairly quickly if the bet was placed on time or not ?
I suppose the cashier obviously did given his sheepish reaction as the blokes ticket won 
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burroughhilllad
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Is this guy actually going to ask for something in writing?
Telephone calls are a waste of time. You need to demand an explanation in writing.
Betfred will provide this if asked, but will also realise the negative publicity such a lettter could generate if it was sent for example to the local paper.
They might decide simply to settle up.
I think if the whole situationis deemed to have been settled by a couple of phone calls this guy hasn't gone anywhere near far enough.
I'd be involving allsorts by now and a letter explaining their policy is the very least I'd be looking for.
The point made by someone about reimbursing losing bets that were put on 10 secs late is a good one.
Believe me, enough earache and Betfred will setttle. This is a piddling amount to them.
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geordie_racer
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that was what they did in the sting, remember... refused Lonnagan's bet because the race was off...
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burroughhilllad
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| geordie_racer wrote: | | that was what they did in the sting, remember... refused Lonnagan's bet because the race was off... |
Ashamed to say i've never watched the film!!
In know, all time classic of all time and all that etc, but i've just never got round to watching it.
Must have watched near enough 1000 films in my time as well. 
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alansouthcoast
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The Sting is right up there as one of my favourite films.
Burroughill...Yes a letter to Betfred is this next step. I will let everyone know if he gets a reply.
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geordie_racer
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | The Sting is right up there as one of my favourite films.
Burroughill...Yes a letter to Betfred is this next step. I will let everyone know if he gets a reply. |
in the good old days the Sporting Life ran an arbitration service for sisputes between punters and bookies
I don't know if the racing Post wstill do this; if so it's worth going down that route too.
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alansouthcoast
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Geordie do you recall the long running saga of the guy they wouldnt pay, as he was underage ?
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jennywales
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Yes, I think I remember this from (possibly) one of David Ashforth's books. He won a rather large sum which was in dispute, and instead of taking the offered settlement (of thousands), he chose to continue to arbitration, whereupon, surprise surprise, the bookie in question found out he was underage, and refunded the stake only (about £25 or something).
If he had accepted the bookies' first offer, he would have been thousands up.
I always think of that in situations where I am tempted to be greedy.....
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geordie_racer
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | | Geordie do you recall the long running saga of the guy they wouldnt pay, as he was underage ? |
yes i do and of course if the bettor had had any sense he would have taken the offer... he shouldnt have had the bet on at all
in this case I think any fair minded person asked to arbitrate would say that the shop took the bet and [as has already been said] wouldnt be refunding late losers [I might try that sometime]
at the end of the day [as they say on MOTD] however, no bets are enforceable contracts, debts of honour only
I think this is worth more to betfred in bad publiciity if it was in the public eye... do you think the C4 team would be interested? BigMac would be!
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alansouthcoast
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I know it involved a tricast bet on a non tricast race ( The Derby ? ), which the bookies wanted to pay as a forecast, still a 6 figure sum. I think the case not only went to arbitration, but also ended up in the high court.
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MT VESSELS
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They could easily look at the security cameras to see if this chap was genuinely queuing or looking at the race and then putting the bet on.
A 10 second delay is nothing really except possibly on the dogs.
Its all about goodwill and to be honest Betfred has never been one for this.
MT jnr
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Owl of Minerva
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | | I know it involved a tricast bet on a non tricast race ( The Derby ? ), which the bookies wanted to pay as a forecast, still a 6 figure sum. I think the case not only went to arbitration, but also ended up in the high court. |
THis happened to me once. A few years back when I didn't really know the rules etc I got up a juicy tri cast on a group race and went to collect but they told me it was not a tc race and so would only pay me the forecast. I had a bit of a go but they wouldn't budge. Betfred again!
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geordie_racer
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it's fairly hard to pay up on a tricast when no tricast dividend has been declared, though!!
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alansouthcoast
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I have been trying to think of this, i am sure it was Nashwans Derby and the second was priced at 3 figures. I think the kid was offered a sum most people would jump at, and greedily turned it down.
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MT VESSELS
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| lenahan wrote: | | theGoingStick wrote: | | lenahan wrote: | Surely the computers in the betting shops shoudl refuse to take the bets if they are not placed in time? The regulators should get onto this. It must surely break some sort of rule?
I mean either the bet is valid or it is not ? If its taken then pay out or otherwise dont take the bet if its late ?
Is it that difficult? And like i said surely there must be some sort of rule they are falling foul off ? |
When the bet is hand written it is just scanned into the system and time stamped, it's upto the cashier to check the slip before doing this. It isn't enetered onto the system at that exact moment and therefore can't be checked by the computer.
It is the cashiers fault for taking the bet after the race (or event) has begun. You see it happen every day. |
Yes tis true. And ultimetly we all know what bookies are like and its never a good idea to leave it right till the last minute as a punter to get your bets on.
But surely it can be slightly different with the virtual racing? I mean i doubt they ever go off late etc ? It will be hard wired into the system that they go off at a set time etc ? The cashier and system should know fairly quickly if the bet was placed on time or not ?
I suppose the cashier obviously did given his sheepish reaction as the blokes ticket won |
The virtual racing times do not follow to the exact minute. If there is a horse race about to go off, the virtual race will be held back and 'fitted in' asap.
It is the customers responsibility (not the cashiers at all) to get his bet on in time. Most punters do not time their bets and you have to decipher the most disgraceful handwriting to boot as well.
The earliest indication that a bet is taken late is when the cashier inputs the bet and not at the point of placing the bet. If there is a queue then usually the inputting is done later.
Usually the punter will state that the race is going off and could they get the bet on. If i knew that the bet was on late i would have asked if it was ok.
There is no possible way that this lad was pulling a fast one and therefore they should honour it, we would at ours.
MT jnr
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alansouthcoast
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The manager wanted to pay out, company policy didnt give him the discression to do so. All virtual bets above a set sum, must be phoned through to head office.
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