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| value seeker |
Royal MailChristmas deliveries are under threat after postal workers voted 3-1 for a national strike.Union chiefs accuse Royal Mail management of running down the service and cutting jobs,services and pensions Critics say postal delays will harm businesses ,what our formites views ,todays serious issue. |
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| accajacca |
if i ran royal mail i would tell them all that they can stay on unpaid leave for as long as they like.
then i would tell the government that i would offer minimum wage jobs delivering the mail to anyone physically and mentally capable of the job who has been receiving job seekers' allowance for more than 6 months. anyone who turned down the job should then have their benefits stopped. kill two birds with one stone. simples. |
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| Papa 3 |
Come on, fair do's it is Christmas coming up, that is when them sods do this, every year it seems. 
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| MT VESSELS |
Post of the Week winner for the 2nd tine on the trot MT jnr |
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| L.C. |
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| L.C. |
Re Christmas, i actually was thinking this year that i wouldnt bother sending cards to family, friends and colleagues, but maybe send out 'e cards' that were perhaps linked to a charity and donate the postage costs and card costs i would save to that charity. Kind of fed up with the Royal Mail (arent we all) - my wife was expecting work posted out to her first class on the 11th September to be with her for no later than the 14th, for a job she was working on on the 15th - it arrived last week. Not to mention the number of calls i am making chasing up outstanding monies for my work, and calls i am fielding where i've paid people and their cheques havent arrived.
I'm assuming this is do-able and some charities do them? Would anybody have any idea who might? Would probably prefer to donate either to a cancer charity or even the L C Paddy Power Open Cheltenham Fund (only kidding, that one is for all of you) Many thanks Cheers LC |
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| gromero |
*ahem*http://www.anthonynolan.org.uk/ - the charity I work for. Sign up everyone 
We don't do e-cards as yet, only the traditional cards, but it's a great idea that I'll put forward. |
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| geordie_racer |
Re: Royal Mail
see "them and us" the end result of any strike will be [a] further loss to competitiors of the profitable parcels business [b] further political pressure for competition in the lettter delivery service, eroding yet more of Royal Mail business [c] as a result of [a] and [b] above there will be a requirement for job losses far beyond what the communications worker's union are currently bleating about, and lots of ordnary people employed in Royal Mail being financially knackered. Meanwhile Dae Ward will continue to draw full salary while whipping people up to go on strike ad won't suffer one jot of inconvenience as a rsult of it all. This is from the Union website, justifiying them campaigning for a strike "The scale of change planned by Royal Mail is frightening and unprecedented. The postal industry, along with the workplaces and jobs of our members, could be unrecognisable. Royal Mail is rolling out those changes with little or no concern for the views or interests of our members, the hard-working postal staff who deliver to every address in the UK year-round. Worse still, we have seen an alarming rise in bullying and harassment cases with managers using the flimsiest of reasons to sack postal workers with long service. " ignore para 2 which is scaremongering nonsense. People with the union behind them have all the ammunition they need to take claims to the Tribunal where unlimited awards of dmages can be ordered in cases where there has been discrimination, and where Employmnet Judges are very quick to order reinstatement or re-engagement i cases of obvious unfair treatment in large organisations. the first paragraph is vry revealing.... we dont like the idea of change, we will stay as we are, because the modern world should not affect us. |
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| alfieatkins |
didnt agree with any of the post but this bit was the bit i had the biggest problem with, why would you only pay minium wage for delivering mail when am sure they must make about £2 above that at the mo, i dont think we should go down the road and devalue our postal workers |
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| MT VESSELS |
I think they bring it on themselves with their archaic working practices which only benefits the worker and not the employer. There should be some give and take these days but whenever this goes to happen, the Union stamps its feet and calls a strike. MT jnr |
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| accajacca |
because the employers would save money which they would have to spend training new people to do the job, and the employees would receive a wage far in excess of the dole money they have been getting, which means the government can stop paying out money, helping the public purse. everyone wins. besides which (removes altruistic hat and puts on bowler hat of capitalism...) post office workers are providing unskilled labour in a market where there is low (and falling) demand and huge (and growing) oversupply. the market price of that labour is therefore naturally lower than would be the case in a different market. the minimum wage is in place to prevent companies from exploiting such situations, so seems like a sensible place to start in the (unfortunately hypothetical) scenario i describe. |
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| Papa 3 |
As I read the post, sorry about the pun, AJ was saying until they come back to work, go to the dole and offer the jobs to the unemployed to tide us over, and weaken the stand of the P.O. workers, until they go back to work. This is instead of say doing to the firemen what has been done in the past i.e. the army. Postal workers do a great job but at the drop of a hat, and at a period to create maximum hurt, they show their arrogance by striking and then getting overtime to recoup their losses, at a higher rate of pay, hence by doing what AJ says, there would be no backlog and the workers would suffer loss of earnings in the true sense. |
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| accajacca |
incidentally that is not to say i think hard working post office staff should have their wages reduced - far from it as they provide a valuable service - but those who decide to bite the hand that feeds them because of their own stubborn resistance to change deserve short shrift in a market where millions are out of work. give the jobs to people that want them at a rate royal mail can afford and let's get things moving again in this country. anyone who doesn't want to be part of the action, foxtrot oscar. it's time to get the country working again. | ||||||
| alfieatkins |
so are you suggesting that all 'non skilled' workers should be on minium wage of which i would be one? |
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| accajacca |
not at all, see my additional point above your post. | ||||||
| alfieatkins |
for what its worth i just think the royal mail workers get a hard time in the media everytime strike action gets mentioned, there is always 2 sides of the story
rant over |
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| Papa 3 |
Any band wagon going past will be full of media personnel, has always been the case. Some workers invite this by timing their strikes at the best possible time for themselves, but alienate the public, and then lie, by saying the public back them 100%. Unions are not as strong as they used to be, but are still intransigent in their support of their members, to keep their highly paid union jobs, instead of playing Devils Advocate. When I was a senior shop steward I was often asked "who's side are you on" my answer was that if I could ask a question that management might ask, and we don't have an answer, then we are kiboshed, so let us think of an answer. During the 3 day week I had to threaten my union with resignation because they would not let us out of the 3 day week so that we could negotiate with our company about impending redundancies. After being on local television, being shown walking to the local union office, with resignation letter in hand, we were allowed to work full time to solve the redundancy issue. | ||||||
| Papa 3 |
On a slightly related topic, Vauxhalls at Ellesmere Port and Luton, have had some good news, by not taking a wage rise for the next two years their jobs are safe until 2013.
Quote A deal to secure the future of Vauxhall's two UK plants has been agreed with the car giant's new owner, in return for cost savings including a two-year pay freeze, it was announced today. This might be a way forward to some sectors, well done the workers in those plants, for seeing some stability. 
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| Darren |
My Dad and step-Dad are both postmen, and have been for over 30 years each. The changes that have been made over the years mean they are now both counting down the days to retirement. Everything is geared towards management cutting costs nowadays.
The Cheltenham office used to have everyone knowing everyone else, around 250 people where it was a career and managers mixed with staff. People were there for life. In the space of 15 years, it has changed to 'who can managers get in for the cheapest?' No-one knows anyone else, as the office is full of temps, and (don't shoot me for this) immigrants who in some circumstances, can not speak English. Not much point to this, but I wonder whether all postmen are being tarred with the same brush. My dad has worked there for 36 years, and is now 1084 days away from retirement (he tells me) from the job he loved up to a few years ago. There is now talk that he won't get the pension at 60, and must do an extra 5 years....this will kill him inside. Working practices have changed massively and there is a shout for modernisation, but they treat their staff like crap nowadays. There should never be an excuse for this. |
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| The_Pilgarlic |
Royal Mail spent far too many years being heinously badly managed by middle managers and aging senior managers who had been promoted from within the Organisation and were out of their depth.
That, combined with the non-redundancy / job for life policy they operated until about half a dozen years ago, resulted in them having an un-sustainable business and they subsequenty haemorrhaged money. The last thing they needed was a recession. It will be years, if ever before they recover. Their workforce is still probably too big which for the longer serving employee working on the 'shop floor' is a fact that is probably hard to take. Just my opinion. |
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| dogsaver |
dont tar them all with the same brush where i live we have good posties they worked through the last strike,did not want to lose money | ||||||
| Jimbob |
I think Royal Mail do a fantastic job and fully support any strike action they take! This so called 'Labour' government don't give two hoots about the working man! How many rural post offices have closed down in the last 10 years(and where were the 'Countryside Alliance when this was going on? Oh that's right, they were banging on about hunting instead of things that really matter to people in the countryside).
The government don't care about public services! It's time to make them care! If striking is the only thing they'll take notice of then so be it! As for Christmas, Bah Humbug 
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| geordie_racer |
the post offices are run seperately from the royal mail |
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| burroughhilllad |
I think Jimbob was talking about public services in general and I agree with him 100%. |
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| Jimbob |
Just to confirm what BHL said. I am aware that the Post Office and Royal Mail are run seperately(I don't believe they should be but that's another argument for another day) and was speaking about public services in general 
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| geordie_racer |
certaily the current govenrment have damaged rural communities and the closure of post offices is but one example
the widening gap between rich and poor is a direct result f gvernment poilicy and tot hat extent the do not care for the weorking man but a royal mail strike is a waste of time and money which will simply erode the business further and make privatisation and increased competition for the lucrative (but not, eg rural letter delivery) parts of the business probably inevitable and certainly more likely. |
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| Death n Taxes |
There was discussion on the radio about companies set up regional mail services. For example Manchester mail where mail will only be collected and delivered within Greater Manchester. B
bearing in mind at the moment it costs the same to send something to the next street as it does to the other end of the country I can see this eating further into the royal mails market as it should be easy to undercut on cost because there will be no need for such signicant infrastructure. The risk as has been said already is that people otside the cities will suffer the most. Its a bit like the deregulation of buses where there are hundreds of buses on the profitable routes but terrible services to the rural communities. |
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| lochsong |
They're between a rock and a hard place.
They left it too long. The rail (unions) members got it right. They are sitting pretty now when the opposition gets in. What next? The binmen? Wouldn't surprise me. The fact is there are no poor people in this country. Only people that work part time by choice, or slackers that want to be given money to live off. |
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| geordie_racer |
conscript them lochsong. national service, that'll sort them out
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| lochsong |
Too right, mate!
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| lochsong |
So they strike.
I've got no sympathy for them. Screw the economy huh? I hope they all get the sack because that'll give 100,000 people who are unemployed and willing to work a job. People with a lot more education than that lot. The posties think they can strangle this defunct Labour government that they used to be in bed with for one last piss take on the public. Screw them. |
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| Jimbob |
LS I don't know if you are friends with any posties but I am. With respect, your assessment of their action is completely wrong. They want to work which is why they are striking. They are being put in a position where the working conditions are impossible. They are not alone. A lot of public servants are being put in the same position. As for sacking them, first of all it is against every British and Eauropean Employment law to sack someone or penalise them in any way for going on strike. Rightly so. Secondly, lets pretend Royal Mail could sack the lot of them. How on earth is that going to help? Having a load of new workers who don't know the job and have nobody to teach them it as everyone who does know the job has been sacked. That would be disastrous for the mail service. Is that what you want? |
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| golfswing |
Here here Jimbo |
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| value seeker |
All kicks off today after talks break down.
Spoke to a few postpersons this week they are expecting a long and dirty strike. Best of luck Brothers and sisters |
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| lochsong |
I suppose you are right Jimbob. Had a momentary rant there.
Half of them will lose their jobs eventually due to mechanisation though, and I say be a man, take it on the chin and go find some other work. The miners did. And so did I in 1990. I did a lot of crappy jobs working for Manpower to make ends meet. They haven't got a God given right to a lifelong job sorting post. 
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| YAIYAM |
I can't see how it will make the slightest bit of difference to anyone, I could quite easily do without posting or recieving mail through the post.
What do people actually use Royal Mail for? |
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| lochsong |
Well for one thing the medical profession are receiving the first batches of antidotes for swine flu on Monday for which there are 1 million people eligible for first treatment for various reasons. The doctors were going to notify said people by means of a letter through the post.... |
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| YAIYAM |
and all these said people none of them have E-Mail or telephones. 
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| The_Pilgarlic |
I agree with you to a certain degree and as long as someone accepts volumes of posted mail are dropping the sooner the better. This is quite interesting and goes to answer what sort of thing does still need to be posted but also how potentially the Royal Mail gun is slowly taking aim at its own foot in terms of physical deliveries. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8318191.stm |
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| lochsong |
I'm guessing when they show up for their dose the nurse will ask to see their letter. At least she would have.
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| Jimbob |
Ken Clarke was on the radio today saying that The Tories will completely privatise Royal Mail. He used to be one of the few tories I liked
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| MT VESSELS |
Well we got our mail delivered today.
Well done to the scabs
MT jnr |
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| Owl of Minerva |
Me too
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| GP |
Whoops should mention, bit of swearing on this video
http://www.hellbored.com/videos/watch/be0209d78f6cb95b37867a39b9fd7846 |
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| Machiavellian |
It's sorting staff on strike today |
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| The_Pilgarlic |
and they are delivering the mail posted and sorted three weeks ago
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| MT VESSELS |
Mail gets sorted??????????? As we seem to get every other persons in the streets mail are you sure they havent been on strike for a while Anyway well done to the postie today as he actually shut our gate after he delivered, 1st time ever. Must be getting close to Christmas. MT jnr |
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| geordie_racer |
can i suggest that the best way to get this sorted is by having a proper fight
mandelson and crozier to take on ward and hayes last man standing gets their way on this no gloves, but knives allowed. at the end the tories can come in and bayonette the wounded |
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