Sea The Stars RETIRED

bencar

John Oxx's brilliant colt Sea The Stars has been retired.

The six-time Group One winner had been in the mix for the Breeders' Cup Classic but connections have decided to call time on his career.

Oxx had intimated after his latest win in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe that retirement was likely for the son of Cape Cross, and it was confirmed in a statement this afternoon.

Oxx said: "It has been decided after discussions with Mr Christopher Tsui (owner) that Sea The Stars will not take part in the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita on November 7.

"He's had a long season and has been in regular fast work from March 3, with his final workout on October 2. He's been in intensive training for seven months with only a three-week break after the Eclipse Stakes at the beginning of July.

"We feel it is unfair to keep him going any further given his unprecedented record of achievement in the last six months.

"He's come out of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in his usual good form. He is fit and healthy and has been cantering since the race.

"He is now retiring from racing, but I have no information on stud career details and an announcement will be made at a much later date when plans have been finalised."

NOT surprised there is no information on stud details yet... bet the phones ringing off the hook !

kickingkyle

Brilliant horse and nothing against the flat or its fans but this is why i prefer NH i want to see a horse go on.

But my word what a champion he was!

MT VESSELS

theGoingStick

I can't help but think I would have liked to have seen him tested more, run in the US and/or carry on racing at 4, but that's the way it goes. Happy retirement, may you produce many more champions!

Tagalie

Glad I got to see him- twice! I still maintain he could have taken the Triple Crown.

I was going to say shame they don't race him for another year, as they're not likely to have another like it, but then remembered they have Urban Sea's last foals to play with!

gromero

Oh well, it was fantastic while it lasted.
I'm really surprised they didn't go for one more, it seems Oxx has been the main one convincing the Tsui's enough is enough.

I totally agree about wanting him to carry on next year. From a racing fans perspective, I'd love to see him win the Prince Of Wales's and carry on for another crack at the Arc.
But of course I can totally understand why they have decided to call it a day.
He'll surely be off to the Irish National Stud, which looks the perfect answer for him. Whether he'll have the divine right to pick and choose between the best mares Coolmore and Darley have to offer, we are yet to find out, but the INS looks the best option.
Of course that also means we can drop by and see him in his field when he's not *ahem* busy.

Now we can pay the guessing game for his first years fee. I'll say 80k

I'd love to be in the office to see the nomination forms come in though, to see who really wants to use him straight away.

And KK and MT. You may be right in that it is dissapointing we don't get to see him carry on racing next year, but we get to see him carry on in so many other and better ways! The future for him out of racing is just as exciting as having him racing.

Jimbob

I'm probably in a minority but I think this is the right decision. See The Stars has nothing to prove and while I would have liked to see him race in the BC, and like Gromero am slightly suprised he isn't going for it, putting myself in Christopher Tsui's position, I'd probably do exactly the same. I would have let him go for the Triple Crown however.

I look forward to his offspring

Gorg_George

I can say I saw him win The Guineas which is nice, surprised there not going for a tilt at the classic, but totally understandable.

I'll say first year price will be... hmmm, it's a difficult one but given his racecourse exploits you've gotta be looking at 100k+ surely.

theGoingStick

First year stallion fee about £65k I'd say.

gromero

Ok just to clarify, I was going for Euro, as he'll be in Ireland. Which with my terrible use of mental arithmatic works out to be approx £75k.
and for tgs, £65k = 70k euros

I think?

GG; £'s or Euro's?

Shall we start a book?

0 - 25k ; 25/1
26 - 40k ; 8/1
41 - 65k ; 11/4
66 - 80k ; 6/4
80 - 95k ; 9/4
95 - 110k ; 4/1
110k+ ; 12/1

I'm on to a hiding for nothing putting that up though with all you shrewdies

Gorg_George

I meant Euros. I'll have me some of the 4/1 95-110k

lenahan

Racing suffers by lack of longevity in a horses career. It helps push the sport further down the list of others in capturing the public imagination. Its bad for the sport imo. Racing needs the breeders of course but the breeders need the racing just as much if not more.

SeaTheStars will surely stand for a fair whack and get plenty of interest:

Cape Cross has been rocketing up the Sires List recently. Isnt he likely to finish Champion Sire this year (possibly ignoring STS results as well?)

Urban Sea Broodmare of the times. Possibly of any time.

There race records were pretty good too ;)

You cant get much more blue blooded than that before the success of Sea The Stars so given his exploits there are surely going to be any number of mare owners wanting access to those bloodlines who will be more than prepared to pay for it. Urban Sea Especially given the only choices are really Galilaio or STS. Depends on your mare i guess but im guessing its only the speedy ones you would send to Galilaio over STS assuming hes not a failure at stud of course. Would appear hed therfore attract more of the share than Galilaio. Thats quite another interesting little subplot to maybe develop in the Tsaui/Coolmoor saga. No reason to think STS wont be a success at Stud and he could well push Galilaio out of the way somewhat.

geordie_racer

sad but inevitable

even 1 more race would have been nice but probably a financial risk

as anyone who has read my rubbish knows I am with KK on this one. If he had been a champion National Hunt horse we would have been looking forward to seeing him for another 5 or 6 years.

Never mind, thanks for the memories

racingcrazy

jetcrowts

Great decision, only the yanks believe the hype of the BC. They had a lot to lose and very little to gain by going over the pond.

Jet.........

BurntFingers

Can't believe I only backed him the once, but he didn't disappoint.

Greatest I've seen in my lifetime anyway.

All the best STS

Owl of Minerva

Firstly just want to say: STS

But at the same time, whilst I completely accept the decision to retire him and am happy to accept flat racing for what it is with its commercial realities, I really wish I could see him race a few more times! Thought Mcrirrick spoke well in this article, and he probably sums up what a lot of us feel:

Cath_EVN

not often i agree with 'Big Mac' but i think he has summed it up really well. I just feel very glad that I went to France for the Arc, i really couldn't afford it but it was worth every penny. It would be easy in hindsight, if he stayed in training and won more, to say what a good decision, but god forbid if he had got injured either travelling or racing. Even now the worry the team around him must have of just keeping him safe.

I am a NH fan first but this horse has caught me from watching the Guineas on TV when he walked into the winners and just stood there with his head up, no leaping about, no tossing his head, just 'look at me'.

david-uk

I think it was the right decision, he had no more to prove and sending him to the States where he would have been quarantined for weeks would not be fair to a horse of this magnitude after all he had done. I have won proper money on him this year, and again today with his retirement I won my unbeaten bet throughout this season. I would rate him as good as Dancing Brave, as seeing both in the flesh win I could not split them. Sea the Stars however had untapped potential, so he could have been the best overall, but we will never know. I dont think we really got to the bottom of this great horse.

pericolo topo

Given the competitiveness of contemporary racing I believe he is at the same level as Sea Bird and The Brigadier.

He's the best friend my Betfair account has ever had...

lenahan

John McCririck

What you say is true cath but how often do horses suffer with break down inurys on the flat. Racing,training,travelling etc? Its not often enough to be a major factor imo. Especially when with a top trainer like Oxx who will always look after the horses welfare. Dont forget they are capable of injury as well when at stud. Look at Motivator recently. He is now out for some months after a fall when doing the deed. I think this risk argument is abit of a flimsy one myself.

Has Usain Bolt got anything left to prove ? Should he retire now ?

gromero

Rowan

penleguin

To be fair, Kinane said he thought he was turning in his coat at the Arc and Oxx agreed. Fair enough to say it would have been nice to see him run on the polytrack in America, but equally I'd say any horse that wins round Epsom shows attributes that are never tested by any other top level flat course in the World. Delighted that Oxx was his trainer.

lochsong

Was there a BC when Sea Bird won the Arc?

Was the field that Sea Bird beat (Bering) as good as the one that StS beat given the horses they beat?

Good luck to StS with the mares.

We got our wish.

A champion for us, for our generation.

Good enough.

westmeadhawk

I was hugely relieved when I read about John Oxx's decision.

He has done right by this horse and as a fan that is all I can ever ask for.

I backed StS at the Guineas because I loved his "to die for pedigree" and because I trusted John Oxx as a trainer. I see no reason to question his judgement now.

Santa Anita is a great spot and now the polytrack is there it is all to the good, but ultimately some of the US horses will be racing on drugs and sidestepping that is no bad thing IMO.

theGoingStick

westmeadhawk

We could crab the form of all of his individual victories compared to other greats, but his record is unmatched. I don't expect it will be in my lifetime. There's a bold statement

westmeadhawk

lenahan

lenahan

This is interesting to read:

Sea The Stars Retirement Reaction: Racing needs to keep its stars on the course in the long run

In his weekly blog Simon Rowlands suggests a way of encouraging top Flat horses to stay in training for longer, tips a "dark one" for Cheltenham and sides with the second favourite in the Dewhurst Stakes.

News of the retirement of Sea The Stars was as sad as it was inevitable. What kind of sport is it that identifies a true champion only to see the individual concerned calling it a day with years at the top ahead of them? A sport that has got a problem, I would suggest. Usain Bolt would have something to say about this, I feel sure.

It is not possible to force owners of top horses to keep them in training for any longer than they wish to, but it may be possible to reward those that do.

We already have races - auction events - in which the progeny of cheap sires get allowances. How about granting allowances in maidens for all offspring of sires that won a Group race beyond the age of three, and a double allowance for those that won a Group race beyond the age of four? Some races could also be solely for those sired by horses that raced on into full maturity.

Depending on how serious the authorities wanted to be about this, they could make winning a maiden in Britain and Ireland very difficult for the offspring of sires retired early. That would presumably make some owners think again and would potentially have significant benefits to the enduring appeal of the sport.

penleguin

gromero

newyorktony

it is sad for racing that he has retired but what a joy he has been this year

a true superstar.... happy retirement

Tagalie

Gorg_George

From RP

'Owner Christopher Tsui has yet to confirm which stud Sea The Stars will stand at but Paddy Power believe it is between three operations.

Favourite is the Irish National Stud, where Sea The Stars was born, 2-1 second favourite is Tsui's stud, which the owner has yet to set up, and Sheikh Mohammed's many establishments are a collective 5-2.

Having amassed almost £4.5 million during his sensational nine-race career, Sea The Stars's covering fee is sure to be high but William Hill think it will barely make it into the six figures, going 6-4 favourite about the price being between €90,000 and €110,000.

What stud will Sea The Stars retire to?
Paddy Power:4-6 Irish National Stud, 2 owner's stud, 5-2 any Sheikh Mohammed stud, 25 Coolmore Stud, Aga Khan Stud Gilltown, 1,000 The Playboy Mansion.

What will Sea The Stars's stud fee be?
William Hill: 6-4 between €90,000 and €110,000, 7-4 over €110,000, 2 under €90,000.'

What was it I had at 4/1 Grom, £100,000 weren't it?

gromero

haha, see i'd be a terrible bookie.

I could win it all back by backing INS though.
I know the Tsui's don't like Coolmore anymore, but they'd be silly not to stand him somewhere that makes him available to them.

At the very worst the Tsui's I'm sure would only accept selling a part of STS to Sheikh Mo, like Pivotal, to keep him from being boycotted by Coolmore.

But we'll see, the world is full of surprises.

gromero

jennywales

This age question is interesting. The oldest horse to compete in the recent European 3-day-event championships was 18....and veterinary supervision is very strict, with horses being "spun" (ie withdrawn on vet's orders) after the cross-country phase quite often. The slightest flaw in fitness or soundness is enough. At that point the horse will have done a dressage test (day 1) and run over the cross-country (about 4 miles, with anything between 18 and 24 obstacles of varying configuration, including multiple fences, drops, water jumps etc). They are timed, and being over the optimum time as set by the course builders incurs penalties, so they can't hang about.

Day 3, they have to (a) pass the vet and (b) complete a show-jumping round to prove that they are still fit, sound and disciplined after a hard day across country.

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), the fitness/soundness levels of such horses are at least as good as racehorses, whether Flat or jumps. The only difference (and it may be a crucial one) is that they are not competing directly against each other; each horse completes the cross-country solo.

If good Flat horses are rushed off to stud at 3, what are the breeders breeding for? Money, presumably, so that progeny can try and repeat the success and earn more money at stud, and so the merry-go-round goes on and is self-perpetuating. Which seems to confirm me in my view that the Flat is primarily about money, and only very secondarily about the robustness, quality and longevity of the stock.

Another bit of info - a longitudinal study of Thoroughbreds in Sweden came to the conclusion that the younger the horse was put into hard training the shorter it's life-span (discouting accidents). Horses do not reach their full growth/physical maturity until 5 or 6 - so what are the breeders actually doing to the breed by retiring excellent horses at 3? Probably not a lot in the short term - in the longer term, I wonder.....

On Tag's point about the Germans, they have a quite strict test of suitability for stud duties, which doesn't just include winning races. It involves tests of temperament, soundness and robustness as well. I will see if I can look up more information, but my German is tiny to non-existent, so I may find it difficult!

What all this boils down to is that sending good Flat horses to stud at 3 may be economically the "right" thing to do, but it may also be perpetuating flaws, faults and in some cases a lack of robustness which will return to haunt the Thoroughbred in the future. I think (and I am open to correction) that all this "retire them at 3" business started with Robert Sangster and his drive to obtain the "best" bloodlines for Coolmore - it may be that his influence on breeding policy is out of all proportion as compared to allowing horses to race on beyond 3 and therefore prove not only their racing quality but their robustness and "lastingness".

Cath_EVN

The whole TB industry is built around the money that is gained from breeding and hyped stallions and while that is the case owners won't risk thier potential investment for more than they need to. winning the Derby is usually enough to warrant big stud fees so we are lucky that they ran STS after that at all. I know horses can get injured at stud but the injuries are less likely to be life threatening.

Some people have talked about it being 'bad for racing' that he has retired inferring that the general public would get more into racing if horses like him stayed around but racing is a minority sport and even if he ran for another 2 years he would still not be acknowledged by the man on the street. I work at an equine hospital where you would assume people had an interest in horses but 2 of my work colleagues asked me after the Arc what was so special about my weekend away! horses like Double Trigger, Persian Punch, Yeats,have run for years at top level yet how many members of the public would know who they are?

As for the TB as a breed and whether retiring early is good for the breed at least STS was a sound horse. how many horses get retired to breeding after an injury? Science still doesn't have the answers to what is inheritable but it is known that some conditions have a familial link. in fact i remember reading research that showed that Mill Reef's offspring had a higher than co-incidental rate of fracture! Vets are doing more wind surgeries on horses these days, should we be operating on these and giving them the chance to win and improve their breeding statistics? that's a whole can of worms to open!!

Machiavellian

Gilltown is 5s from 25s

gromero

willie10

Don't want to hijack another thread with my favourite subject, but Jenny is spot on. We are the worst in Ireland in that we consider a horse old at 6. Now 'they' (promoted by the useless Irish Field) say they want horses broken at 3 for the NH sales. They are missing the truth, which is that we have diluted our fantastic pool of mares trying to produce bumper winners, and confusing it as the reason that people buy French horses. I'm glad to hear of a study saying that young horses are at risk in hard training - all common sense would suggest that is the case, yet we keep being told it's good for them. Finally, to get back to the point, I sincerely hope STS stands at the National Stud, fails miserably and is standing at their NH sister Anngrove alongside the wonderful Pilsudski in a few years. I've already shown my NH mare his photo and she's dead keen

penleguin

willie10

Pilsudski is really well Penleguin (or he was in the spring when my mare visited, hope he hasn't croaked since). He is such a lovely horse. I only realised this year that he's closely related to Youmzain - obviously a family trait coming second in the Arc

lochsong

I reckon we will see a triple crown winner within the next 10 years.

It's got to be done.

gromero

I was only 5k out then.

How much did you have on GG? I've pm'd you details of where to send the cheque....

Machiavellian

gromero

they did, and now my mate tells me that he had £18 on, that was all they let him have.
but he didn't bloody tell me did he, no the m..... f......

but he told me all about bloody chabal

grrr friends, who needs enemies....

Machiavellian

Chabal lol.

Can't get over how underwhelming his appearance was at Newmarket, just doesn't look like a good horse.

gromero

Yeah i still can't work it out.

Has jim really stitched up Sheikh Mo by hyping up a little thing like him? He looked like a seller next to the Coolmore horses in the Dewhurst.
Jim is a snake, but he couldn't get away with that surely?

I can't get my head around the National and Dewhurst result at all.

lochsong

HORSE OF THE YEAR.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/ho...orse-of-the-year/659900/standard/

Andy

lochsong

lenahan