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Owl,
Are you just restricting yourself to horse-racing, or considering dabbling in a variety of sports? I am sure that you could make reasonable money on footy, golf, tennis and darts just to name a few.
My opinion is that if you want to earn 1200 / month, which equates to 300 / week (averaging 4 weeks / month), so 60 quid / day - you'd need no more than 1500 or 2K. Biggest issue would be discipline.
Earning 60 / day is EASY IMO. Means earning 65 / day on Betfair, assuming max 5% commission. Every day there are numerous horses, clearly not going to win, so for this requirement, lying is by far the simplest way to achieve your goal.
i would attempt not to risk more than 2% of your bank on any trade.
i would also avoid setting daily targets - what's the point? just creates unnecessary pressure to find action where there isn't any - or let's you be lazy on a day when you've made a few quid but there are opportunities everywhere.
i'm no sports gambling pro, but my financial trading account does ok and i'm planning on taking it a lot more seriously over the next few years - and these are rules i don't plan on breaking where i can avoid it.
i might be wrong, but laying no hopers (presumably at decent odds) to win a fixed amount each day using a relatively modest bank sounds like an inevitable blow up recipe to me.
if you can make £1200 per month using £1500, that is an implied monthly return of 80% after commission.
if you can achieve those figures for a year, liquidity allowing, your compound profit would be £1,733,747.
to profit £15k per year in steady growth (not hitting an acca or blowing up at any stage, just solid growth with sensible expected losing streaks etc) i would be impressed by anyone who had less than £30k available to bet.
that's not to say of course you couldn't start with much less and build it up.
good luck
AJ
Some comments in response.
1. Didn't mention laying no-hopers (ie those trading at massvice prices)
2. I tend not to agree with the 2% comment, but that's just a personal preference, so each to their own.
3. Wasn't setting daily targets as a fixed regime, but was breaking it down to show what was required. It all depends on opportunities. Some days you may make 85, some 35 etc.
"if you can make £1200 per month using £1500, that is an implied monthly return of 80% after commission." No idea of the relevance of this comment. I tend not to include any standard business expectations in how I trade, but again each to their own.
"if you can achieve those figures for a year, liquidity allowing, your compound profit would be £1,733,747." Dont even understand this. Owl asked to make 1200 / month, so that's just over 14K / year. What are your figures referring to?
Owl the figure i think you should be looking at is firstly have the amount saved to pay those monthly out goings so if it is £1000pm then have something like £6,000 to £12,000 to cover you for at least 6 months and keep this seperate.
Then have at least another £5,000(more if possible but not essential) for the gambling part that to me is about as much as you need to start _________________ Forest are Treemendous
wasn't having a go, just offering a different point of view. my thoughts as follows;
1. Didn't mention laying no-hopers (ie those trading at massvice prices)
i just assumed when you said horses that obviously won't win you were talking about horses at decent prices. i did say presumably but obviously i presumed wrong. all i would say is that there can't be that many shorties that "obviously" won't win, even to the very best layer's eyes.
2. I tend not to agree with the 2% comment, but that's just a personal preference, so each to their own.
indeed
3. Wasn't setting daily targets as a fixed regime, but was breaking it down to show what was required. It all depends on opportunities. Some days you may make 85, some 35 etc.
sure, then we agree
"if you can make £1200 per month using £1500, that is an implied monthly return of 80% after commission." No idea of the relevance of this comment. I tend not to include any standard business expectations in how I trade, but again each to their own.
the relevance is that if you're doing it as a profession you need to be able to analyse your own performance (or at least i try to when trading) and set realistic targets. building your bank by 80% in a month is, in my opinion, unrealistic. but maybe that's because i couldn't do it - if anyone can then good luck to them. i know a few pros (all of whom run sports books themselves and bet only on what they know inside out) and i'd be surprised if they targeted a tenth of that growth.
"if you can achieve those figures for a year, liquidity allowing, your compound profit would be £1,733,747." Dont even understand this. Owl asked to make 1200 / month, so that's just over 14K / year. What are your figures referring to?
what i'm saying is that if you think it is easy to make 80% in month one, i can't see any reason why it wouldn't be equally easy to make money in month two, three, four, etc. if you took nothing out of your pot and continued to make an "easy" 80%, after a year you would have a profit on the account of £1,733,747 (with the caveat that after a few months liquidity might get a bit tight). in other words, if you think it is easy to make £1200 in a month with a starting pot of £1500, there is really no reason you shouldn't have half a million quid in your account in a year's time. i don't think it's easy or realistic to expect those returns, so would suggest a higher starting pot - that's all.
wasn't having a go, just offering a different point of view. my thoughts as follows;
1. Didn't mention laying no-hopers (ie those trading at massvice prices)
i just assumed when you said horses that obviously won't win you were talking about horses at decent prices. i did say presumably but obviously i presumed wrong. all i would say is that there can't be that many shorties that "obviously" won't win, even to the very best layer's eyes.
2. I tend not to agree with the 2% comment, but that's just a personal preference, so each to their own.
indeed
3. Wasn't setting daily targets as a fixed regime, but was breaking it down to show what was required. It all depends on opportunities. Some days you may make 85, some 35 etc.
sure, then we agree
"if you can make £1200 per month using £1500, that is an implied monthly return of 80% after commission." No idea of the relevance of this comment. I tend not to include any standard business expectations in how I trade, but again each to their own.
the relevance is that if you're doing it as a profession you need to be able to analyse your own performance (or at least i try to when trading) and set realistic targets. building your bank by 80% in a month is, in my opinion, unrealistic. but maybe that's because i couldn't do it - if anyone can then good luck to them. i know a few pros (all of whom run sports books themselves and bet only on what they know inside out) and i'd be surprised if they targeted a tenth of that growth.
"if you can achieve those figures for a year, liquidity allowing, your compound profit would be £1,733,747." Dont even understand this. Owl asked to make 1200 / month, so that's just over 14K / year. What are your figures referring to?
what i'm saying is that if you think it is easy to make 80% in month one, i can't see any reason why it wouldn't be equally easy to make money in month two, three, four, etc. if you took nothing out of your pot and continued to make an "easy" 80%, after a year you would have a profit on the account of £1,733,747 (with the caveat that after a few months liquidity might get a bit tight). in other words, if you think it is easy to make £1200 in a month with a starting pot of £1500, there is really no reason you shouldn't have half a million quid in your account in a year's time. i don't think it's easy or realistic to expect those returns, so would suggest a higher starting pot - that's all.
cheers
AJ
[/b]
OK - get what you mean by your compound profit scenario, but that's why I commented that 'discipline' would be the biggest issue. Getting greedy and upping stakes etc. This would be something to look at as an option after a long period of profits. As you mention too, the market liquidity wouldn't support the continuous upping of stake to maintain the said 80% return. I would also add, market liquidity is often a factor in laying a horse.
BTW - didn't take your post at all as 'having a go'.
From my little experience i thnk theres prbably 3 things you need to go pro, 1) Starting bank 2) Annual target 3) Discipline, all as important as eachother, if you have that target in mine for the year it doesnt make you bet everyday but it does mean you need to pay yopur bills and would need money as YY states. For me personally discipline is the hardest thing. Owl picks plenty of winners and im sure with the right discipline could do well. BUT theres no point saying il have 4 bets a day at £100, if theres nothing you fancy, dont bet! IF theres something you think is overpriced and a great chance, bet bigger. _________________ Wolves winner 20.1.08
Quitting a decent job with good prospects, great pension/share options, where I have a good reputation etc. in the middle of a fierce recession probably isn't most peoples idea of a great decision. Especially when I still have a fair few student related debts and not a massive amount of savings
But that's what I'm highly likely to do very soon. A bit nervous, but all in all quite excited and confident that I'm doing the right thing.
I'm not intending to be a full on pro gambler indefintely - indeed my principal reason for quitting is to set up my own business (nothing to do with gambling/horses). But that will probably take 9-12 months to fully establish so in the meantime I'll be making a living predominantly through betting. I've had enough consistent success with the horses over the past 6mths to convince myself that I can do well - however sitting in front of a computer screen gambling all day isn't something I'd want to do indefintely - so hopefully by next summer I'll be ready to make my millions with my new business venture
Sorry to ramble but just thought I'd let you all know!
Owl, I admire anyone who is prepared to make the commitment, give the time, and absorb the inherent risks. As you know, I gamble for fun not profit (profit is a bonus) and at monetary levels suitable for a pensioner! So VERY good luck in this, and if you want (only if you want!) keep us up to date with how you are doing.
Location: stones throw from aintree racecourse,well maybe with a catapult
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject:
Owl of Minerva wrote:
The time has come . . . . . . .
Quitting a decent job with good prospects, great pension/share options, where I have a good reputation etc. in the middle of a fierce recession probably isn't most peoples idea of a great decision. Especially when I still have a fair few student related debts and not a massive amount of savings
But that's what I'm highly likely to do very soon. A bit nervous, but all in all quite excited and confident that I'm doing the right thing.
I'm not intending to be a full on pro gambler indefintely - indeed my principal reason for quitting is to set up my own business (nothing to do with gambling/horses). But that will probably take 9-12 months to fully establish so in the meantime I'll be making a living predominantly through betting. I've had enough consistent success with the horses over the past 6mths to convince myself that I can do well - however sitting in front of a computer screen gambling all day isn't something I'd want to do indefintely - so hopefully by next summer I'll be ready to make my millions with my new business venture
Sorry to ramble but just thought I'd let you all know!
Owl
Best of luck ,wouldnt mind trying it myself got 38 years in a company ,there is the thought of as I am on a final salary scheme ,would think of it in two years.
Have a read of winning on betfair for dummies ,got the updated version this week in waterstones for £9.99
Chapter 13 is going pro ,page 123,it really is informative ,the book pays for itself ,as well as telling what not to do ,more important than what to do.
He gives a seven day account of his betting ,which is quite good. _________________ I AM HAPPY TO JOIN WITH YOU TODAY IN WHAT WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE GREATEST DEMONSTRATION FOR FREEDOM IN THE HISTORY OF OUR NATION(THE I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH,1963, MARTIN LUTHER KING)
Good luck with this Owl. I would love to take a chance myself, although I think to do it justice you need a decent starting bank, to allow for losses. _________________ If at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you
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