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Papa 3
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Machiavellian wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | Give me one good reason why I should? |
He's a human being that is dying. |
At least someone gets it. |
So when Harold Shipman or Ian Huntly gets told he only has one week to live....? |
Biggs is not in the same league as murderers, so your argument falls down, and the one thing that keeps getting harped on about is he showed no remorse, does this mean that "I'm sorry" makes us think differently about him? 
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shamardal84
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006
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Location: Washington (Near Newcastle)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Machiavellian wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | Give me one good reason why I should? |
He's a human being that is dying. |
At least someone gets it. |
So when Harold Shipman or Ian Huntly gets told he only has one week to live....? |
Biggs is not in the same league as murderers, so your argument falls down, and the one thing that keeps getting harped on about is he showed no remorse, does this mean that "I'm sorry" makes us think differently about him? |
My argument doesnt fall down at all, Biggs commited a robbery where I have no doubt if he had to murder he would of, just look at the driver. At the end of the day, a sentence is a sentence. I didnt commit any crimes in my life therefore I am allowed to die with my family at my home. He did commit a crime, fled the country, lived the life of luxury, probably a much better life than any of us will live for a long time, laughed at the british people and its system and now he is expecting the british system to help him out cos he's dying.
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Papa 3
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 2706
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| shamardal84 wrote: | | Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Machiavellian wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | Give me one good reason why I should? |
He's a human being that is dying. |
At least someone gets it. |
So when Harold Shipman or Ian Huntly gets told he only has one week to live....? |
Biggs is not in the same league as murderers, so your argument falls down, and the one thing that keeps getting harped on about is he showed no remorse, does this mean that "I'm sorry" makes us think differently about him? |
My argument doesnt fall down at all, Biggs commited a robbery where I have no doubt if he had to murder he would of, just look at the driver. At the end of the day, a sentence is a sentence. I didnt commit any crimes in my life therefore I am allowed to die with my family at my home. He did commit a crime, fled the country, lived the life of luxury, probably a much better life than any of us will live for a long time, laughed at the british people and its system and now he is expecting the british system to help him out cos he's dying. |
On your reasoning, every robber, thief or shop lifter should be locked up for as long as murderers, that is using your illogical supposition that he would have murdered if he had to, how do you arrive at that conclusion when you didn't even know the man.?
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alansouthcoast
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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What gets me is why people think a criminal is sorry, just because he says so. If you think about it, they are just as likely to lie to get parole.
The ones I think are telling the truth, are like the guys jailed for the 3 Essex boys killings. The continue to say they are not guilty so stay in jail, if they had lied they would be due parole and released by now.
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shamardal84
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006
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Location: Washington (Near Newcastle)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Machiavellian wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | Give me one good reason why I should? |
He's a human being that is dying. |
At least someone gets it. |
So when Harold Shipman or Ian Huntly gets told he only has one week to live....? |
Biggs is not in the same league as murderers, so your argument falls down, and the one thing that keeps getting harped on about is he showed no remorse, does this mean that "I'm sorry" makes us think differently about him? |
My argument doesnt fall down at all, Biggs commited a robbery where I have no doubt if he had to murder he would of, just look at the driver. At the end of the day, a sentence is a sentence. I didnt commit any crimes in my life therefore I am allowed to die with my family at my home. He did commit a crime, fled the country, lived the life of luxury, probably a much better life than any of us will live for a long time, laughed at the british people and its system and now he is expecting the british system to help him out cos he's dying. |
On your reasoning, every robber, thief or shop lifter should be locked up for as long as murderers, that is using your illogical supposition that he would have murdered if he had to, how do you arrive at that conclusion when you didn't even know the man.? |
Oh sorry, my mistake, I didnt realise that based on the evidence this guy was a mother theresa. I must have read the case totally wrong.
At the end of the day if this guy really wanted to die with his family he a) wouldnt have commited the crime in the first place or b) wouldnt have run and away and come back when his money ran out.
Its quite simple really, we all make decisions in life and we have to deal with the consequences. If i had unportected sex and the girl got pregnant, I cant just decide I was having a bad night and to not support the child etc. He made the decision to rob the train and runaway, so therefore he must learn to live with the consequences, one of those being dieing in jail. Its not as if we've just sprung it on him that the new law is you die in jail, thats why people get a sentence.
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shamardal84
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006
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Location: Washington (Near Newcastle)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | What gets me is why people think a criminal is sorry, just because he says so. If you think about it, they are just as likely to lie to get parole.
The ones I think are telling the truth, are like the guys jailed for the 3 Essex boys killings. The continue to say they are not guilty so stay in jail, if they had lied they would be due parole and released by now. |
At the end of the day this doesnt really have much to do with the biggs case because he said he wasnt sorry for anything. Should we be more lenient with him because he's honest? Certainly not. I think its quite pathetic of him to use the argument 'i dont regret anything in life because i wouldnt of had my son'
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Papa 3
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 2706
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | What gets me is why people think a criminal is sorry, just because he says so. If you think about it, they are just as likely to lie to get parole.
The ones I think are telling the truth, are like the guys jailed for the 3 Essex boys killings. The continue to say they are not guilty so stay in jail, if they had lied they would be due parole and released by now. |
At the end of the day this doesnt really have much to do with the biggs case because he said he wasnt sorry for anything. Should we be more lenient with him because he's honest? Certainly not. I think its quite pathetic of him to use the argument 'i dont regret anything in life because i wouldnt of had my son' |
To end my involvement in this never ending discussion, this is a quote off Yahoo News. Biggs will turn 80 on Saturday - the 46th anniversary of the robbery. Michael Biggs said his father had expressed regret for the robbery, but did not regret "living the life he had". 
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MT VESSELS
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 4019
Location: WIRRAL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | What gets me is why people think a criminal is sorry, just because he says so. If you think about it, they are just as likely to lie to get parole.
The ones I think are telling the truth, are like the guys jailed for the 3 Essex boys killings. The continue to say they are not guilty so stay in jail, if they had lied they would be due parole and released by now. |
At the end of the day this doesnt really have much to do with the biggs case because he said he wasnt sorry for anything. Should we be more lenient with him because he's honest? Certainly not. I think its quite pathetic of him to use the argument 'i dont regret anything in life because i wouldnt of had my son' |
We should be lenient as he is about to drop dead and the sentence he got was an absolute joke in first place.
People who kill get a lot less. The sentence was handed out from instruction from the government which in itself is a disgrace.
Saying that, we have not moved on that much from the 60's with stiffer sentences being handed out for DWP fraud than actually mugging someone.
I dont particularly like the man but why should he be treated any different from every other prisoner who gets released early.
I would kick off more about the IRA being let out as political prisoners early after murdering loads than bothering to spit me dummy out about some old lag
MT jnr
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Jimbob
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 7475
Location: Norwich
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | | Machiavellian wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: | | Give me one good reason why I should? |
He's a human being that is dying. |
At least someone gets it. |
So when Harold Shipman or Ian Huntly gets told he only has one week to live....? |
Biggs is not in the same league as murderers, so your argument falls down, and the one thing that keeps getting harped on about is he showed no remorse, does this mean that "I'm sorry" makes us think differently about him? |
Well a sorry would be a start! Biggs has committed a crime! Not only does he show no remorse but he boasts about it!! Scum is all he is! I say he is a traitor to the country as he only wanted back in when he was ill! He spent most of his adult life laughing at us and now wants our help(that statement can not be applied to Shipley or Huntley by the way).
MT, prisoners get let out of jail early for all sorts of reasons but a big part of this is whether they SHOW REMORSE for what they have done. Everyone deserves another chance, I'm a strong believer in that but Biggs has had numerous chances and stuck two fingers up at them all!
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MT VESSELS
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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Location: WIRRAL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimbob wrote: |
MT, prisoners get let out of jail early for all sorts of reasons but a big part of this is whether they SHOW REMORSE for what they have done. Everyone deserves another chance, I'm a strong believer in that but Biggs has had numerous chances and stuck two fingers up at them all! |
I just dont buy this 'showing remorse' at all. As ASC said, most say it to try and get parole.
All prisoners should serve their full sentence and if they show remorse after that, then fine, let them back into the community.
I just cant comprehend why people are so miffed at a dying man getting let out (on license) when there are far more scandalous cases of prisoners getting let out of jail early for far more serious crimes.
MT jnr
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alansouthcoast
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimbob wrote: |
MT, prisoners get let out of jail early for all sorts of reasons but a big part of this is whether they SHOW REMORSE for what they have done. |
http://www.ehow.com/how_2033877_prepare-parole-hearing.html
Look at item #3 and get back to me about remorse. If all parolees were really remorseful, we wouldnt have such high reoffending rates.
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geordie_racer
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 11050
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Papa 3 wrote: | | shamardal84 wrote: | | alansouthcoast wrote: | What gets me is why people think a criminal is sorry, just because he says so. If you think about it, they are just as likely to lie to get parole.
The ones I think are telling the truth, are like the guys jailed for the 3 Essex boys killings. The continue to say they are not guilty so stay in jail, if they had lied they would be due parole and released by now. |
At the end of the day this doesnt really have much to do with the biggs case because he said he wasnt sorry for anything. Should we be more lenient with him because he's honest? Certainly not. I think its quite pathetic of him to use the argument 'i dont regret anything in life because i wouldnt of had my son' |
To end my involvement in this never ending discussion, this is a quote off Yahoo News. Biggs will turn 80 on Saturday - the 46th anniversary of the robbery. Michael Biggs said his father had expressed regret for the robbery, but did not regret "living the life he had". |
I wonder when he did so
presumably at the same time as the man said to be incapable of speech or writing etc expressed his delight at the decision of jack straw. telepathic communication?
Throughout his time HE has never expressed any remorse at all
and Alan, do you really think that the issue of remorse (which tends to relate to serious rather than petty crme) has a major influence on teh re-offending stats? compared to peer pressure, discrimination inthe job market, social background and home life?
next thing son of Biggs will be wanting us to fnd his trip to Dignitas so his dad can exercise his "right" to die with dignity
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Gorg_George
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Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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Location: Leicester
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Let the cretin rot in hell. Disgrace of a human being.
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Jimbob
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 7475
Location: Norwich
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| alansouthcoast wrote: | | Jimbob wrote: |
MT, prisoners get let out of jail early for all sorts of reasons but a big part of this is whether they SHOW REMORSE for what they have done. |
http://www.ehow.com/how_2033877_prepare-parole-hearing.html
Look at item #3 and get back to me about remorse. If all parolees were really remorseful, we wouldnt have such high reoffending rates. |
I never suggested all parolees were really remorseful, but some of them are genuine. The idea that prisoners only say they are remorseful to try and get parole is frankly insulting to the thousands out there who have genuinely changed their ways.
But in the case of Biggs he won't say sorry at all. We can't argue about if he means something he has never said! If he said it, then the debate as to whether he means it can go ahead.
This cowardly decision by Jack Straw has made is the laughing stock of the world. Biggs is one of the biggest scumbags this country has ever produced and not only do we let him back in the country for free medical care he should not be entitled to, we then let him become a free man!! I can not convey to you how angry I am about this decision!
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MT VESSELS
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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This cowardly decision by Jack Straw has made is the laughing stock of the world. Biggs is one of the biggest scumbags this country has ever produced and not only do we let him back in the country for free medical care he should not be entitled to, we then let him become a free man!! I can not convey to you how angry I am about this decision!
Our justice system makes us the laughing stock of the world.
Why the , should there be parole anyway.
If someone commits a crime and is found guilty. A sentence is passed that is deemed fair. If not fair, than an appeal can be made. Once a sentence is finalised why should it be possible to have the time served reduced for good behaviour ? Absolute nonesense. 20 years should mean 20 years, end of.
But oh no, we have this ludicrous penalty system in place which allows a decent sentence become a soft one, and every prisoner is entitled to this. As Biggs is one of these prisoners, he is entitled as well. Whether anyone likes it or not.
With regards being insulting to offenders and ex prisoners, i dont think i will lose much sleep at all as they are scum sorry rehabilitated scum
MT jnr
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