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Breeders Cup 2009
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cre8flow
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the downhill has a right hand turn as the course dips downward

recently the drf has adjusted their speed figures for poly emphasizing class
still its tricky business on poly to use speed figures on poly and turf

the bc is dicey as a betting event on poly this year as the euros will be bet down
many will have missed the bus if the euros do not come through
zenyatta has a supersonic come home time and will be bet heavy
rip has never raced on poly and wont offer same value as rp last year

so will take a long long look at richards kid at a price
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cre8flow
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleeting spirit in all probability does not have a bad draw

but if you euros want to have ready made excuses so be it

can see it now
if the euros lose the "excuse is there"

if not the raving will be a go
goldikova has the bad draw-very likely

forever together likely has a good draw

rainbow view likely decent
rip very likely okay
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Galileo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O'Brien much more bullish about Rip on the RP tonight.
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Gorg_George
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cre8flow wrote:
fleeting spirit in all probability does not have a bad draw

but if you euros want to have ready made excuses so be it

can see it now
if the euros lose the "excuse is there"

if not the raving will be a go
goldikova has the bad draw-very likely

forever together likely has a good draw

rainbow view likely decent
rip very likely okay



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cre8flow
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually i must admit

i was wrong

the mile turf in my mind is very strong

you have a strong defending champ
two other euros who should be considered very classy
the dubai winner
and court vision is no slouch
just enough humor is not all that bad

so its fairly strong
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Machiavellian
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Aidan O'Brien trained runners, Man Of Iron in the Marathon apart will be running without medication.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/...-to-end-Breeders-Cup-drought.aspx

I have that cap!
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theGoingStick
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know who allocates Aidan O'Brien his horse out in America but he always seems to end up riding something more appropriate for a cowboy film than the racecourse  
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will running with salix really affect the horses that much and is Aiden at a disadvantage along with Fleeting Spirit and Zacinto with not running with it? I know its well documented that it attributed to the improved performance of Curlin but does it improve every horse?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone would like a copy of todays Thoroughbred Daily News (TDN) then just pm me your email address. It has all of todays BC news straight from the US. It's a good read.
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gromero
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need a bit of help from our American friends I think. Cre8flow, newyorktony?
What track is abbreviated to Ret? And is there anything about this track that would produce fast times?
I’m specifically looking at Lisa’s Kitten’s (who runs in the juvenile fillies turf) last run there. The going was sf? What’s that?
Assuming the track isn’t anything different to most other US turf courses, she looks lightening quick over a mile. Agree?
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Machiavellian
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Retama Park, Grom. It's in Texas.
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gromero
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok cheers Mach. Never ever heard of it, the US equivalent to Southwell?

Not only has this filly produced the fastest time of the field over a mile (Lillie Langtry hasn't gone a mile yet), she was blocked in the final furlong when achieving this time.
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borismo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midday's shortening all the time around 5/2, im holding out for the pools the day of the race.  Saw the other day that she was 5s or so on the american morning line prices.

Quite like spanish moon too.  Won a g1 this year and a g2 beating vision dtat who is a very solid yardstick but perhaps more so over 10f.  Just wondering though if spanish moon might take the american front runner on up front and set it up for Conduit...surely not
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LongJ0n wrote:
Will running with salix really affect the horses that much and is Aiden at a disadvantage along with Fleeting Spirit and Zacinto with not running with it? I know its well documented that it attributed to the improved performance of Curlin but does it improve every horse?


The article got it wrong - it's Lasix. Cre8flow can correct me, but I don't think Lasix is necessarily performance enhancing in and of itself. It is primarily given to suppress bleeding in the lungs and respiratory tract, which has always been a problem in the States because of the kickback from dirt being inhaled constantly over a period and thus compromising breathing/oxygen to red blood cells/red blood cells to muscles and so on.

Obviously, if a horse has a tendency to bleed anyway, Lasix will enable the horse to continue training/racing where perhaps without it he could not (same problem as with bute). And it might increase performance simply by enabling better oxygen uptake and better transfer of oxygen to the red blood cells and so on. But you'd really need a vet to answer that one!

I don't think horses trained on turf/aw over here are necessarily disadvantaged if they go to the States and race on dirt quite quickly after their transfer over, And they are not disadvantaged, of course, on turf courses anyway, as far as I can see, assuming that Lasix is given only for the reasons above. But I think there are some veterinary opinions which do regard Lasix as performance enhacing regardless of the surface on which the horse is trained/run. so the simple answer is, I don't know and I suspect no-one does, really.
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LongJ0n
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennywales wrote:
LongJ0n wrote:
Will running with salix really affect the horses that much and is Aiden at a disadvantage along with Fleeting Spirit and Zacinto with not running with it? I know its well documented that it attributed to the improved performance of Curlin but does it improve every horse?


The article got it wrong - it's Lasix. Cre8flow can correct me, but I don't think Lasix is necessarily performance enhancing in and of itself. It is primarily given to suppress bleeding in the lungs and respiratory tract, which has always been a problem in the States because of the kickback from dirt being inhaled constantly over a period and thus compromising breathing/oxygen to red blood cells/red blood cells to muscles and so on.

Obviously, if a horse has a tendency to bleed anyway, Lasix will enable the horse to continue training/racing where perhaps without it he could not (same problem as with bute). And it might increase performance simply by enabling better oxygen uptake and better transfer of oxygen to the red blood cells and so on. But you'd really need a vet to answer that one!

I don't think horses trained on turf/aw over here are necessarily disadvantaged if they go to the States and race on dirt quite quickly after their transfer over, And they are not disadvantaged, of course, on turf courses anyway, as far as I can see, assuming that Lasix is given only for the reasons above. But I think there are some veterinary opinions which do regard Lasix as performance enhacing regardless of the surface on which the horse is trained/run. so the simple answer is, I don't know and I suspect no-one does, really.


I did wonder why id never heard of it, lasix sounds a bit better . Thanks for the insight anyway Jen, after a few tomorrow night I dont think ill care whether my horse is running in Lasix or Vodka  


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