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Arctic Times .................again ! I just wish he could translate p2p form to the track.
As for Astonville, i am not sure who owns him, i hope it isnt Wilson still. I saw him mentioned in the Weekender p2p section and he either won or was placed.
So do I!!
From memory I saw both Astonville and Turnium were running under new ownership in Ireland during mid-season. However, both the Irish and UK sites (horse search) don't have them more recently than the last Festival whre they ran ie 2006 I think. The Irish horse search and form database also has point results.
Odd.....
I know Wilson had a couple of French-breds at the Festival this year (including Marble Garden in the Gold Cup). _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
Rank outsiders Astonville and Turnium, both trained in France by Philippe Cottin for owner Fergus Wilson, are non runners in the totesport Cheltenham Gold Cup having failed Jockey Club veterinary inspections this morning.
“I went and saw the horses in their boxes at 8.30am this morning and they seemed fine to my eyes but at 11.30am we were told they had failed the vet, who said they were lame,” said Wilson. “The trainer has gone back to France and they are just here with their lads, who couldn’t see what was wrong them. We’re all terribly disappointed and I think Cheltenham racecourse are as well.”
There has been debate in the media as to whether the pair should be allowed to line-up in the big race and Wilson added: “This is the first time that there were going to be 24 runners in the Gold Cup and with that many horses running off level weights you have to accept that they can’t all be of the same ability.
“We have to ask the question whether we want to return to the days I remember of Arkle and Mill House and four runners in the Gold Cup when obviously the average ability of each runner was far higher.
“I think there should be some minimum qualification for running in the race but if you make it 140 for example then Astonville was rated 142 last year
“But Astonville has beaten Beef Or Salmon (who pulled up) in the race before and has been very good in his time, he beat Baracouda off level weights in France and he has also beaten horses such as Bounce Back, Cenkos and Iris Bleu. The horses we try and buy would have a rating that would get them into the Grand National off a weight between 10st 4lb and 10st 6lb
“People criticised us when we brought Modular over but he made the running that helped Best Mate set a record time. Revenue is important for the sport so I would like to think we have helped in that respect by having runners.
“Astonville and Turnium are now going off to a farm in Devon and will be sold as point-to-pointers. Astonville should be top-class in that world having finished 10th in a Gold Cup.
“The British Horseracing Board and Jockey Club have been extremely helpful and I am meeting Greg Nichols, the BHB’s chief executive, at 4pm today.”
Astonville failed to complete his first two starts this season and finished tailed off in Tuesday’s Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle while Turnium has been pulled up in all three starts this season, including the Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle.
I've just read Strong Flow fell at the final fence yesterday but he's none the worse for the fall.
Re: Guinness Gold Cup Punchestown:
Strong Flow - a 14-length winner of the 2003 Hennessy Cognac Gold Cup when handled by Nicholls - could also line up.
The 10-year-old, now trained on the Curragh by Dessie Hughes, ran in a point-to-point on Sunday.
"I think he had a ligament problem and a growth in his knee when he was with Paul Nicholls and he joined me in the New Year," said Hughes.
"He's a lovely horse - he's grand. We'll see how he goes between now and Punchestown but that race is a possibility.
"Our intention was to run him in a hunter chase first and he's in at Fairyhouse on Sunday but unfortunately he fell at the last fence yesterday in a point-to-point at Ballynoe, so he didn't qualify for that.
"The plans are up in the air at the moment but he's none the worse for the fall." _________________ 2008 Ryder Cup Competition - WINNER
When out walking brother don't you forget,
It ain't often that you'll ever find a friend.
I've just read Strong Flow fell at the final fence yesterday but he's none the worse for the fall.
"He's a lovely horse - he's grand. We'll see how he goes between now and Punchestown but that race is a possibility.
"Our intention was to run him in a hunter chase first and he's in at Fairyhouse on Sunday but unfortunately he fell at the last fence yesterday in a point-to-point at Ballynoe, so he didn't qualify for that.
"The plans are up in the air at the moment but he's none the worse for the fall."
Cheers Binge.
"Ah do they need the good lord hisself to send down an actual angel to get the message over?"
Thank heavens he's ok, anyway. But Punchestown? I thought the Betfred would be pushing it and that was assuming he got round yesterday and had a spin in a hunter chase. The Punchestown race is a few days earlier, probably hotter, and level weights to boot. A fall isn't a great prep even if it will cut up.
Comments in racing for Strong Flow from Sunday's P2P;
Close up, led from 3rd, headed before 7th, challenged on outer before 2 out, close 2nd but looked beaten when fell at last.
Bless him, i hope he's none the worse for his fall.
However much the Prize money is for that Gold Cup race, or whichever race they have in mind for him, if i had the money spare, i would gladly give them it to put an end to all this nonsense.
Comments in racing for Strong Flow from Sunday's P2P;
Close up, led from 3rd, headed before 7th, challenged on outer before 2 out, close 2nd but looked beaten when fell at last.
Bless him, i hope he's none the worse for his fall.
However much the Prize money is for that Gold Cup race, or whichever race they have in mind for him, if i had the money spare, i would gladly give them it to put an end to all this nonsense.
Then he could come and live with me
Gosh GP
I always admire your support for the less fortunate of our equine friends - and your willingness to adopt them! Can you really do that - I mean you must live on a farm or something to adopt horses the way you suggest?
And then have the wherewithall to care for them.
LS _________________ Does killing time damage eternity?
Aw thanks LS for your kind words, that is very nice of you to say.
Put it this way, i'm thinking of opening a Zoo/Safari Park Haha. I do live in the country and don't have children, so that's who i give my time, energy & love to, horses, dogs and cats (it's a bugger to write Christmas cards out from us all!)
I think two more wild cats adopted me today, they showed up while i was doing the horses and didnt leave if they are still around tomorrow, that will make a nice round figure of 10 (10 cats that is)
Shame energy can't be bought, i'd be first in the queue, i feel about 120 tonight, although most people who know me on the forum would tell you, i'm not a day over 115
"Former Hennessy Gold Cup winner Strong Flow will enjoy some rest before returning to training next season.
The 10-year-old had been retired after failing to make a full recovery from a knee injury but joined Dessie Hughes' team after making significant progress at home.
Connections initially hatched an ambitious plan to tackle Saturday's Betfred Gold Cup at Sandown but a recent pointing mishap forced a rethink.
"He doesn't run in the Betfred now as we just didn't get a run into him," Hughes explained.
"We were going to run him in a hunter chase but he fell in a point to point and didn't qualify.
"The plan was to go for the hunter chase at Fairyhouse and then either run at Punchestown or Sandown but he'll go out now and we'll get him back in for the autumn."
From the SL website. It seems to me that if he didn't "get a run" and "fell in a point to point and didn't qualify" this is surely sending messages....
If he can't qualify even for a hunter chase, surely retire him? I am the first to argue that good horses can and should, given the right treatment, come back when they are older and do well in hunter chasing and p2ps, for example, but this seems to be pushing it a bit. Doran's Pride, anyone?
Matter of judgement for connections, I know, but perhaps in this case the judgement is not as sound as it could be. They may be right, he may come back sound and raring to go after his rest, but is this a realistic aspiration? _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
where does that leave well chief? you gonna retire him and all the other horses whohave fallen recently? i mean if you can't get round.....
from the sounds of things those looking after strong flow think that he can come back with a chance of being competitive and i say good luck to them _________________ Geordie_R
"A should of known there mum was buying banana's"
No Geordie, not all the other horses who have fallen. All I am asking is that thought be given to the fact that some horses can come back from injury well and some find it more difficult. Please don't knee-jerk about posts that suggest there might be a welfare issue ("Might be" - Not "Is" or "It's all dreadful"). If you note, I DO say "Matter of judgement for connections". There's no harm in someone asking whether that judgement may occasionally be flawed. It isn't a question of whether the horse doesn't or can't get round. It is related to previous injury (and experience). Frankly, at the age of 10, to be unqualified to run in hunter chases because of a fall in a point, after a long time off through injury, is practically diagnostic!
I didn't have you down as one of the "run them until they drop" brigade! _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
No Geordie, not all the other horses who have fallen. All I am asking is that thought be given to the fact that some horses can come back from injury well and some find it more difficult. Please don't knee-jerk about posts that suggest there might be a welfare issue ("Might be" - Not "Is" or "It's all dreadful"). If you note, I DO say "Matter of judgement for connections". There's no harm in someone asking whether that judgement may occasionally be flawed. It isn't a question of whether the horse doesn't or can't get round. It is related to previous injury (and experience). Frankly, at the age of 10, to be unqualified to run in hunter chases because of a fall in a point, after a long time off through injury, is practically diagnostic!
I didn't have you down as one of the "run them until they drop" brigade!
Mmm you should read all of this thread. I don't why GR has had such a bee in his bonnet but he appeared to be hugely missing the point behind the strong feeling against the horse's return.
Personally, I think with his medical history, I wouldn't have considered bringing him back into competition but MY objection was that the horse was being rushed towards two big competitive targets with only about 6 weeks to get any racing under his belt by an owner who had virtually abandoned racing after suffering some awful losses. If they wanted to point or hunter chase him, fine if the horse is healthy, but the Betfred and Punchestown were overly ambitious, and so it's proven.
I've not seen a report on his fall other than the comment that he was pretty fresh, so he may well have been tired. He was entered in another point last week but didn't run - possibly because the ground would have been too quick. That's prevented him running in a hunter chase.
If he comes back in to training and has a sensible campaign, I'll look at it differently. There's no mention that he hasn't coped with training or had problems from the fall, so if he shows some ability in the autumn things would be different.
He certainly can't be compared to Well Chief, who allegedly "only" had some heat in a leg, and at 8, still has age on his side.
I`ve just read on Channel 4`s Teletext pages that Dessie Hughes is giving Strong Flow a rest now before he returns to training next season. That`s good to hear, I thought Dessie Hughes would do right by the horse in the end, Sue
I`ve just read on Channel 4`s Teletext pages that Dessie Hughes is giving Strong Flow a rest now before he returns to training next season. That`s good to hear, I thought Dessie Hughes would do right by the horse in the end, Sue
yes rowan, so did i
including running him when and if it is right to do so
throughout this thread i have been consistent. let the connections decide if the horse can run. if the trainer was a less than reputable soul then i would be concerned, but dessie hughes is a proper horseman and kows his stuff. he also knows more about this horse than everyone on this board put together and i object to the condemnation of his intentions b those who do not know the full story. nothing else
that is all _________________ Geordie_R
"A should of known there mum was buying banana's"
his hennessy win was truly amazing, and let's hope he's as good as ever in due course
Sorry my original title wasn't very informative - I deleted the expletives and forgot to put something else in.
I don't think it's great news at all. He's ten and the problems he had with his knee were difficult - they missed some piece of bone and that's why he was out for so long, because it was just floating around keeping him lame. It was a miracle he ran, let alone as well as he did in the Gold Cup in 05. Why push it? I thought Marshall had had enough of risking horses after L'Ange au Ciel was killed at Aintree.
this is the point..hardly an open minded view, rowan.
_________________ Geordie_R
"A should of known there mum was buying banana's"
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if they are still around tomorrow, that will make a nice round figure of 10 (10 cats that is)
