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Interesting post with plenty of food for thought. I've only ridden mares and geldings and kind of assumed most stallions were too intractable to be ridden, evidently this isn't the case!
I did a work experience stint on a stud farm when I was 15- it was old school though, no covering barns- the mare and stallion were left in a field for a private night of romance together! You can certainly tell the difference with an entire- they are just far sharper and more alert to their surroundings.
I'd always been under the impression that stallions can lead a normal working life as well as covering, provided a bit of common sense is applied in their handling.
I'm afraid I've never been a big fan of GW, but am happy to be proven otherwise if he runs well this year. I don't understand why you'd want to send a mare to such a temperamental, problematic animal, when you could go for the beautiful, consistent Galileo, who has already proven he stamps his offspring with class, speed and stamina.
Absolutely not! Even in Northern Europe stallions can and do do "other jobs", but it doesn't happen often (not often enough in my opinion, as you can gather!) The Section A stallion was absolutely fine to ride, even on a hack out along the roads and bridleways, when there was no guarantee we would not meet an in-season mare!! I trusted him absolutely to behave, and because he had been ridden from early on, and indeed started at a relatively young age for the breed (2), he was absolutely fine and not in the least "stalliony". The same went for the Shetland scurry pony - he had a job to do that he really enjoyed, and in between times sired a few nice progeny!
I would certainly understand anyone who argued that Thoroughbred stallions involved in racing are (a) too expensive to take risks with and (b) too big and explosive to do a second job - but the latter argument at least doesn't stand up, in my book. The former argument MAY, but TB stallions are at risk anyway from all sorts of things ranging from colic to grass sickness to being injured by a mare they are trying to cover and so on. Dubai Millenium was lost to grass sickness, as I understand it.
It is the way that stallions, and particularly TB stallions, are handled from the beginning that I think is dificult. They are taught and encouraged to run like the devil, and then told to stop while they are still very young (physically not fully mature), let down quickly and taken away to a stud career that involves covering as many mares as possible with minimal other exercise. From running to standing - in one not so easy lesson! _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
Maybe I make huge assumptions about the way stud farms are run, but I would have thought stallions are too valuable to not be looked after properly, mentally and physically. I know every horse is different and can be treated in different ways, Hence why some confident but relaxed stallions require very little attention and work and only require to be housed in nice stables and surroundings, fed the best diet and ridden out occasionally. The stallions, in particular the younger ones, that are livelier, fitter and generally more of a handful due to being wound up to be raced, I am sure are treated accordingly. Are they not regulated like any other farm rearing livestock? _________________ Is ready to hibernate
I have never worked with stallions, but plenty of colts in training. They are all different - some you could ride out with a mare in season and they won't bat an eyelid, others are coltish and difficult at all times and will mount even geldings during exercise if given a chance. I assume these differences persist once they start covering i.e. some are more tricky than others, so I don't see why all should be treated as wild and dangerous beasts even if a minority can be. This is where the management bit comes in, but like a lot of the tb world these days I suppose money (time) takes precedence. Eventing and showjumping stallions regularly mix stallion duties with competing (some by AI, but not all). Like Tagalie I do not care for the temperamental GW and I think he has done mare owners a favour!
. Are they not regulated like any other farm rearing livestock?
Not as far as I am aware. Obviously, they will have to conform to local authority rules and regulations as regards heath and safety (but that's to do with humans, not animals), Min of Ag regulations about movements and so on, and the respective Stud Books have the job of verifying the breeding of the progeny. And considering how a great many farm animals are treated, I don't think these standards would necessarily be acceptable anyway. Would YOU want your stallion to be treated like a battery hen or crate-reared pigs? I don't think there are separate and distinct regulations for stud farms - indeed this is one of the aspects that makes it all too easy for people to breed sub-standard stock, and too many of them. Where did I read recently that ?Coolmore had "culled" about 80 surplus stock? There is control over horses (through the passport system) but only AFTER they are born. A stallion will have to have a passport, particularly if he moves stud, but this isn't to do with his welfare, it is to do with keeping tags on the movement of animals from place to place. The horse passport system was only introduced as a legal requirement for ALL horses after the latest foot and mouth outbreak. The passports were in the past required by the governing bodies of the various horse sports (racing, show jumping, eventing, etc etc) mainly as proof of identity (eg you couldn't bring a horse into racecourse stables unless you could show a current passport for it).
Some studs do manage their stallions well, but too many treat them as cheque-writing machines. Like most things in life, it isn't all bad, but it isn't all good either. _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
I have never worked with stallions, but plenty of colts in training. They are all different - some you could ride out with a mare in season and they won't bat an eyelid, others are coltish and difficult at all times and will mount even geldings during exercise if given a chance. I assume these differences persist once they start covering i.e. some are more tricky than others, so I don't see why all should be treated as wild and dangerous beasts even if a minority can be. This is where the management bit comes in, but like a lot of the tb world these days I suppose money (time) takes precedence. Eventing and showjumping stallions regularly mix stallion duties with competing (some by AI, but not all). Like Tagalie I do not care for the temperamental GW and I think he has done mare owners a favour!
Willie10, I agree with you, particularly on the point about time and money. I think the Germans had the right idea when they required their sport horse registered stallions to have proved themselves in competition to a high level before being certificated for stud duties.
The temperament point is vital - I have seen too many good horses fail and be got rid of because they were wonderfully bred but their temperaments were extremely dodgy. There is no point in having a running machine if after two or three years it becomes impossible to handle or do anything with. Some colts/stallions, I agree, are simply not suitable for "general duties", but a lot of them WOULD be if they were handled correctly from the outset. _________________ UNEXPECTED WINNER 2009 FLAT 10 TO FOLLOW COMPETITION!
Yeah well Jenny I think we're probably singing from the same hymn sheet here. As far as I'm concerned temperament is top of my list for a stallion, and a horse like GW should only be allowed six mares a year. Good enough for him. Temperament will always come out; the Alleged influence, for example, is notorious
O'Brien added: "He has got about six mares in foal and they were towards the end (of his spell at stud) so I think there's a chance it may sort itself out next year."
Do you think this is all part of some brilliant marketing stunt by Coolmore? Those 6 foals have probably just had another zero added to their price tag by their rarity. Especially if there's only one or two colts. Then George will just stand as normal again next year....
And what if GW goes on to win 4 or 5 Group 1's this year and for whatever reason shoots blanks at stud next year....... what price then??
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Maybe I make huge assumptions about the way stud farms are run, but I would have thought stallions are too valuable to not be looked after properly, mentally and physically.
Problem is, they're also too valuable to be allowed to be horses....
Why wouldnt they put george over hurdles?? will they keep him in the mile 1m1f/2f races and maybe aim for the likes of the dubai world cup in the future? or the dubai derby?
Well, they say that a horse over hurdles should run 7f further afaik (as far as I know - for the older folk ), so George could quite easily be a top class 2 miler. _________________ 2008 Roll Of Honour (So Far....)
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I see Gorgeous George is still declared for the Juddmonte next weekend, can we expect to see this horse turn up? How exciting! Something to look forward to all week..... _________________ 2008 Roll Of Honour (So Far....)
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I see Gorgeous George is still declared for the Juddmonte next weekend, can we expect to see this horse turn up? How exciting! Something to look forward to all week.....
Cant see it myself.
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), so George could quite easily be a top class 2 miler.
