forum.sports-pro.co.uk A discussion forum devoted to people who want to talk about sports and sports betting! People without a sense of humour need not apply!!
it depends how you look at it. You may regard some of the statements made as 'bashing' or whatever. The fact that someone makes a prediction about what will happen in a race that you don't agree with doesn't make it an insult and as for 'Katchemup' well tht's just banter and if you take that personally then you are overly emotionally involved.
and I certainly haven't insulted him whatsoever. I just think he is an extremely unlikely winner of the CH and thought he was way too short in the Fighting Fifth.
You can tell me I was wrong if he does win in March but I won't be taking it personally.
Fair enough - I have not taken anything personally and I have no real emotional involvement other than thinking he is a very good horse and worthy of consideration for top honours. I personally think that 'bashing' has gone on - as I have said (although not by yourself to my recall - but several others have - without always justification). Bashing in itself is fine - (I think I may have called Harchibald ungenuine) - and I don't get wound up by it - I just may get into a long and arduous debate
As for the price I have agreed all along. I wanted to back him yesterday but made 7/4 my minimum required price and so 'fortunately' did not get a bet on. I do not think 10/1 is a value bet at this stage either for the Champion - although that is to do with the length of time before the run as opposed to thinking there are a number of horses with better claims.
I have taken nothing personally on this thread - I have enjoyed it throughout and I hope we can continue to have such threads. If I have appeared overly sensitive or aggressive at any times I apologise - I can assure everybody I am neither sensitive or aggressive - just opinionated
Best,
Three. _________________ One way to stop a runaway horse is to bet on him.
If there were not at least 3 better 2 mile hurdlers going for the Champion Hurdle in Ireland then Ebaziyan I would be very surprised. What was all that about today running that horse against two vastly superior horses over 2 mile 4 furlongs, had they given up on the Champion Hurdle or were they on a fact finding mission?
Bula is the only horse to have won the Supreme Novice and next years champion. The Sun Alliance has only thrown up Istabraq and Hardy Eustace. Very few winners of either race have won the Champion Hurdle.
Geordie, if you had gone back a year Hor La Loi won the Supreme in `99 and then the Champion a few years later.
Stats dont lie folks, 5 year olds have got a very poor record in the Champion and if Katchit was going to win at the festival, he needed to be good enough to win yesterday.
If there were not at least 3 better 2 mile hurdlers going for the Champion Hurdle in Ireland then Ebaziyan I would be very surprised. What was all that about today running that horse against two vastly superior horses over 2 mile 4 furlongs, had they given up on the Champion Hurdle or were they on a fact finding mission?
This is typical Wiliie Mullin,s if he truelly believes Ebaziyan has a chance in the Champion he will run it as many times as he can now for experiance then rest him probably run him in the AIG then have him spot on for Cheltenham again thats what i am hoping anyway. I would never right horses like this off until they have at least been back to Cheltenham once _________________ Forest are Treemendous
There is one horse who is quietly going about his business from last seasons Ballymore Property Hurdle who hacked up yesterday and is still 33/1 so i'm not complaining. If you look closely through his formlines he looks to hold Clopf and Sizing Europe with his eyes closed.
YY - You could look at the other side of the coin with Ebaziyan and view his 3 runs this season as a negative as i think it's often beneficial to have a fresh horse for the Cheltenham festival. Sublimity only had his first race at the end of January last season (due to setbacks) and there have been reports that Iktitaf was very tired before he fell in the Cheltenham Hurdle itself - maybe his busy early season schedule had caught up with him.
A good horse can run as often as he likes and not have too marked a difference. Night Nurse had 8 races before Cheltenham one year, winning them all.
Swagger i see why you are keen on Catch Me, on a strict line through Holly Tree he has the beating of stable mate Clopf. That said O`Grady is no mug and he rates Clopf the better of the two.
Bula is the only horse to have won the Supreme Novice and next years champion. The Sun Alliance has only thrown up Istabraq and Hardy Eustace. Very few winners of either race have won the Champion Hurdle.
Geordie, if you had gone back a year Hor La Loi won the Supreme in `99 and then the Champion a few years later.
Stats dont lie folks, 5 year olds have got a very poor record in the Champion and if Katchit was going to win at the festival, he needed to be good enough to win yesterday.
correct, he won the champion in 2002
but we are being told Ebazyain is the liely winner of the champion and I cant put him anywhere near Bula on any known form
All i am saying here is that Katchit is a very decent horse, well worth his place in the champion hurdle consideration. Of course he was underpriced for both the fith and the champion before yesterday but lets see what he does next tmie out which will be at cheltenham _________________ Geordie_R
"A should of known there mum was buying banana's"
If the race hasn't taken too much out of him yesterday, I would just like to see Katckit now run in the Boylesports International, that may polarise opinion or firm it up either way, but i think he will run a better race there...
Alan - are you sure O'Grady still rates Clopf as the better horse?
01 Dec 2007 Fairyhouse (18Y)
I was hoping it would go like that, although I didn't think he was really 100 per cent ready. We'll go to Navan next and we could always step up (in class), as he was unlucky in three Grade 1 races last year. But that was a good introduction. In hindsight I might have run him in the wrong race at Cheltenham, I don't know if he got up the hill. I was so convinced Clopf was going to Plan A (Supreme Novices'). But hindsight is a wonderful thing - Edward O'Grady
Make no mistake this was a hot race:
CHELTENHAM
14 March 2007
Good To Soft
2:00 Ballymore Properties Novices' Hurdle (Registered As The Baring Bingham Novices' Hurdle) Grade 1 (Class 1) (4yo+) 10 hdles 2m5f
[off 2:00] £68,424.00, £25,668.00, £12,852.00, £6,408.00, £3,216.00, £1,608.00
TRAINER Age Wgt JOCKEY SP OR TS RPR
1 Massini´s Maguire (IRE) P J Hobbs 6 11-7 Richard Johnson 20/1 138 142 149+
2 nk Tidal Bay (IRE) J Howard Johnson 6 11-7 P J Brennan 10/1 142 142 149+
3 1½ Catch Me (GER) E J O´Grady 5 11-7 B J Geraghty 7/1 141 148+
4 3½ Silverburn P F Nicholls 6 11-7 R Walsh 7/2 144 137 143
5 5 Aran Concerto (IRE) Noel Meade 6 11-7 A P McCoy 5/2F 133 143+
6 shd My Turn Now (IRE) C J Mann 5 11-7 Noel Fehily 15/2 140 133 138+
7 3½ Imperial Commander (IRE) N A Twiston-Davies 6 11-7 Tony Evans 25/1 131 130 135+
8 5 Scotsirish (IRE) W P Mullins 6 11-7 D J Condon 12/1 125 130+
9 3 Battlecry (GB) N A Twiston-Davies 6 11-7 Tom Scudamore 100/1 122 126
10 10 Foligold (FR) Mrs John Harrington 5 11-7 v1 T P Treacy 66/1 113 116
11 6 Hot Port E McNamara 5 11-7 R M Power 150/1 107 110
12 13 Raslan D E Pipe 4 10-12 p Timmy Murphy 25/1 118 86 88
13 14 Duc De Regniere (FR) N J Henderson 5 11-7 Mick Fitzgerald 9/1 81 83
14 11 Santando P Bowen 7 11-7 T J O´Brien 150/1 120 70 72
F Johnnie Dillinger (IRE) M F Morris 7 11-7 D N Russell 100/1 — 132
15 ran TIME 5m 5.40s (slow by 5.40s) TOTAL SP 119%
RP - Catch Me had shown himself to be one of the best 2m novice hurdlers in Ireland this season. Stepping up in distance, he came there to have every chance before the last and was hampered when the first two drifted together on the run-in. However, it didn't appear to make any difference to the result and the initial impression was that he stayed well enough but could prove more effective at the minimum trip.
I watched the Fighting Fifth very closely when not fighting the dog for a place on the sofa!
I have deliberately not reviewed the video form, so this is very impressionistic (and that is sometimes the way to go). I thought Katchit didn't get exactly his race, and the problem here is that if a horse is dependent on the race being run to suit, he will not succeed at the highest levels. On the other hand, I thought it was a game performance and confirmed what most people think about his courage (not necessarily his ability).
One of the great things about these little speedballs is that they can lose a race and (almost literally) bounce back. However, I too am in the doubters camp in that I don't think Katchit would have the beating of Harchibald if (and only if) Harchibald runs to the classy form he ran to on Saturday.
If I were Katchit's owner (I wish!) I would still be wanting a CH run, but in the knowledge that a lot of luck will be needed for success. Which does not make it impossible.....
I think the key to what might happen will be from now till March. Katchit carried all before him up until the Fighting Fifth. How he is campaigned (or not) between now and then will be most important - which everyone realises, but I thought I'd just utter a platitude....
PS I seem to have an invasion of mice, so must go.....
Alan - are you sure O'Grady still rates Clopf as the better horse?
01 Dec 2007 Fairyhouse (18Y)
I was hoping it would go like that, although I didn't think he was really 100 per cent ready. We'll go to Navan next and we could always step up (in class), as he was unlucky in three Grade 1 races last year. But that was a good introduction. In hindsight I might have run him in the wrong race at Cheltenham, I don't know if he got up the hill. I was so convinced Clopf was going to Plan A (Supreme Novices'). But hindsight is a wonderful thing - Edward O'Grady
Make no mistake this was a hot race:
CHELTENHAM
14 March 2007
Good To Soft
2:00 Ballymore Properties Novices' Hurdle (Registered As The Baring Bingham Novices' Hurdle) Grade 1 (Class 1) (4yo+) 10 hdles 2m5f
[off 2:00] £68,424.00, £25,668.00, £12,852.00, £6,408.00, £3,216.00, £1,608.00
TRAINER Age Wgt JOCKEY SP OR TS RPR
1 Massini´s Maguire (IRE) P J Hobbs 6 11-7 Richard Johnson 20/1 138 142 149+
2 nk Tidal Bay (IRE) J Howard Johnson 6 11-7 P J Brennan 10/1 142 142 149+
3 1½ Catch Me (GER) E J O´Grady 5 11-7 B J Geraghty 7/1 141 148+
4 3½ Silverburn P F Nicholls 6 11-7 R Walsh 7/2 144 137 143
5 5 Aran Concerto (IRE) Noel Meade 6 11-7 A P McCoy 5/2F 133 143+
6 shd My Turn Now (IRE) C J Mann 5 11-7 Noel Fehily 15/2 140 133 138+
7 3½ Imperial Commander (IRE) N A Twiston-Davies 6 11-7 Tony Evans 25/1 131 130 135+
8 5 Scotsirish (IRE) W P Mullins 6 11-7 D J Condon 12/1 125 130+
9 3 Battlecry (GB) N A Twiston-Davies 6 11-7 Tom Scudamore 100/1 122 126
10 10 Foligold (FR) Mrs John Harrington 5 11-7 v1 T P Treacy 66/1 113 116
11 6 Hot Port E McNamara 5 11-7 R M Power 150/1 107 110
12 13 Raslan D E Pipe 4 10-12 p Timmy Murphy 25/1 118 86 88
13 14 Duc De Regniere (FR) N J Henderson 5 11-7 Mick Fitzgerald 9/1 81 83
14 11 Santando P Bowen 7 11-7 T J O´Brien 150/1 120 70 72
F Johnnie Dillinger (IRE) M F Morris 7 11-7 D N Russell 100/1 — 132
15 ran TIME 5m 5.40s (slow by 5.40s) TOTAL SP 119%
RP - Catch Me had shown himself to be one of the best 2m novice hurdlers in Ireland this season. Stepping up in distance, he came there to have every chance before the last and was hampered when the first two drifted together on the run-in. However, it didn't appear to make any difference to the result and the initial impression was that he stayed well enough but could prove more effective at the minimum trip.
Regards.
Swagger i am sure that race will throw up more decent chasers than hurdlers. I asked myself the a simple question, and also considered that O`Grady had said Clopf had a great chance yesterday. The thing i wondered was if he thought Catch Me was the better of the two, why didnt he run in the Fighting Fifth instead. He must have been equally as fit as Clopf to win like he did yesterday. Surely the trainer put his best horse in the race
A good horse can run as often as he likes and not have too marked a difference. Night Nurse had 8 races before Cheltenham one year, winning them all.
Not always true Alan - some of the very best horses take weeks to recover from a race. Best Mate was a point in case - he needed 2/3 weeks post race before he would work again seriously. _________________ One way to stop a runaway horse is to bet on him.
For my tuppence worth - not sure it's worth that much though!!
Katchit delivered a performance that was somewhere in between - what was expected on form and enough for backers to take heart.
The thing that struck me was the size of Harchibald and Al Eile against Katchit, they dwarfed him - and it's the age old addage "a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un"!!????
Those in the Katchit camp, what do you make of Al Eile finishing in front of it? _________________ ROLL OF HONOUR
Those in the Katchit camp, what do you make of Al Eile finishing in front of it?
Not sure I am in the Katchit camp as such, but I had Al Eile for a place and have always liked the horse. He runs one (or possibly two) very good races during the season, and the rest of the time he is outclassed. On a going day he can hold his own (not necessarily win) with the very best. I also think he is better suited to further, and if running in the World Hurdle would back him. So I am not overly troubled by Al Eile finishing in front of Katchit - this may have been his race of the year (and to come second to Harchibald in his best form is good going, in my opinion).
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
